split thread , kitten prices

[Fran]

I put a lot and time and effort into producing my pups. I sleep for at least three weeks on the settee beside them after they are born. I chose my sire carefully taking into account pedigree lines and faults within the lines and no expenses are spared on either mum or pups. I do not breed to make money nor do I expect to make any. My pleasure comes from seeing my new puppy owners faces when they choose their new puppy and I take pleasure in knowing I have done everything in my power to produce a healthy well balanced pup out of very good pedigree lines. I keep in touch with every single pup I have bred for life and would always take a pup /dog back if circumstances necessitated....

[belladiablo]

Hi PK,
At no point did I attempt to imply that you had put no time and effort into your breeding, but not to cover your own costs at the very least seems a shame!
I had not wanted this post to turn into an argument, although you seem quite determined that this should be so! I really do not understand why?
I certainly hope you are not implying that cats are lesser creatures than your puppies, or that the cat breeders that are able to make a living from this wonderful yet terrifying job should not do so?
I pay the same for antibiotics, and the consultations that you do, and also pay the same for vet care. If any of my cats should need out of hours care, I pay over £80 before even walking in the door! I pay a high cost for my vaccines, as the breed I love will only just tolerate a dead vaccine, and the live has been known to kill them! I research all the deadly things that will kill a kitten, daily, yet still have so much more to learn! You commented before, that the vets you had dealt with, had never performed a c section on a cat, well how then does that explain all the breeders I have spoken to that have had this with at least one cat? You point out that your particular breed needs an eye test every year, well so do cat breeders with felv, fiv, and other numerous diseases that could kill your entire household, including fip, which could not only kill one cat but decimate your stock, but for which there is no defininitive test apart from autopsy, no cure and no vaccine! Fading kitten syndrome is another battle from which we suffer, and once again are left with no answers! Many breeds such as the British Shorthair can suffer with pkd, and this will cost a breeder to test for!

The reason I said anything at all in this post was not to upset cat or dog breeders, but to point out to customers, future or present, that breeding is hard work, and if you think any breeder is greedy, puppy or kitten then take into account the hard work and money they put into their work (sorry it is taking me ages to write this, best Big Brother ever!) Poor Vanessa!!!!

Suexxx

[Fran]

I am just trying to point out that breeding should not be done to make money and it seems in the cat world that making money is imperative. This isn't so in the dog world. You will actually find in the dog world that the champion dogs stud fee is less than Joe Bloggs down the road! but you may have many miles to travel to use him. All I am trying to point out in all of this is pedigree cats seem very expensive at the side of pedigree dogs.......Breeding should not be about making money and if it is then you are doing it for the wrong reasons. It really costs no more money to produce a pup for Crufts than it does to produce a pup for any other reason and if it does then you are doing something wrong i.e placing more importance on your so called show stock You do not pay the same for antibiotics or consultation for cats as dog are notoriously dearer at the vets than cats are. And in the dog world we too have fading puppy syndrome but luckily I personally have not experienced this but as I know a lot of the reasons that contribute to this condition I do everything in my power to reduce the odds.

I just get very wound up by people that see breeding, no what animal as an income as it just isn't so. You breed for the love of the breed and for no other reason. Any good breeder breeds at a loss not a profit most of the time....

[luggage16]

sorry to have caused a bit of a debate on here!!

[Fran]

No problem Sam That is what forums are for!! I think that it should have been carried on in the debate section though. If I had some Bengals for sale you would most certainly be able to afford them from me but I don't unfortunetly I have some non pedigree kittens 1 week old if that helps???

[Azz]

calm down guys!

Do you really want to get into a price debate!?

You will find that different people charge different prices for different reasons, and in the Bengal world that is different again.

Not sure what it is liek for other breeds, but a Bengal breeding queen will cost you at the minium £800, and some charge a lot more if they feel they have 'something special'. Why? because the Bengal cats when bred properly costs a lot of money, as most of the sought after charteristics and 'lines' have to be imported, and because it is a fairly new breed, new lines are having to be brought in quite regularly.

The breeder who bred Cheetah is certainly not rich from it - she feeds her cats meat that is fit for human consumption! I've seen her freezer full of the stuff and Im sure it costs a pretty penny. Her pens are immaculate and from what I have seen the cats are looked after more than the huumans! She often says, the humans can look after themselves the catss can't.

Anyway thats just my two bobs worth and I hope it shows there is more to it that just meets the eye. I hope we dont have any heated debates on catpages!

[Fran]

Hi Azz

Surely you would prefer a debate re cats than a little old chat about the weather - after all this is a cat forum??? I think you have missed the point of the posts really...... I think this should have been in the debate section. My point is this breeder may have only joined to promote her kittens and make money . My point is you don't breed to make money however clean your premises! or whether you have imported or not! It is the fundamental principle to breeding that is important - not the money!!
PK

[luggage16]

pretty kitty, i would be very interested in your kittens but your quite a distance from me so no good im afraid! I must admit I agree with you on the profit side of things though, I know a few rat breeders (i know its not the same thing at all) and they definately breed at a loss - most breeders of most animal breed for the love of the animals and improvement of a line and not to make a profit from it. Though if all the other breeders charge the prices they do for bengal cats its not surprising that new breeders charge the same. Wish they didnt though as i know i'd make a good mummy for a little bengal if I could afford one!

[Azz]

Hi PK

Yes the fundamental reason for breeding should be to improve the breed, however my point about the clenliness /food / importing etc was that it's expensive, and some people may think it justified to charge those prices. At the end of the day, people have the choice to say no and ultimately that is what will dicate the price

If you guys want to continue this in the debates section thats fine by me PK Just start a thread there if you like

Regarding people coming on here to 'advertise' I will be removing the Kittens Available section as like we have done at Dogweb, and wait untill our breeders directory is live before re-opening it (as all breeder who want to get listed in the directory will have to adhere to our breeder charter/code of ethics)



x

[belladiablo]

I think that is a little unfair, if all I had wanted to do was to promote my own kittens, I would have joined and then added my breeder listings! Then left again! Azz is right, breeding pedigree cats can be hard work and expensive, as is owning your own stud boy! I am sure that Azz paid a pretty penny for her lovely Bengals. Also, that it was in line with what other breeders charge!

I think that my main point however has got lost along the way, somehow, which was, that in general, people are used to paying prices for pedigree dogs, but somehow seem offended that you charge money for kittens! When a kitten customer telephones or emails, and asks the price of a kitten, I tell them, and they say, "oh no, didn't want a show kitten or anything just a pet!", and I have to tell them that is the pet price!

I would dearly love to able to breed for free, or pay for cats to be bred, and someday, I will make that happen, as my dream is to breed rare wild cats to help with their conservation in the wild!

With the Sokoke, I expect you will all be more than horrified, to learn that a kitten would cost £2500. I know I am putting my head above the parapet here and it is likely to be shot off, hey ho! Getting used to it now!

The thing with the Sokoke price however, and this took a lot of breeders input to reach, not just mine I hasten to add, was this..... girl kittens amongst founder breeders will be swapped for free. As the breed is so rare, the price should reflect that 'rarity', but also, that price is for all, breeding and pet, so that should a pet owner really want a girl, we would ask them that the girl maybe has one or two litters before being spayed to help with the breed numbers! I have to tell you, I have someone waiting for a Sokoke kitten, I cannot say who, as this is not fair, but someone richer than the chap who owns Harrods. This person, (and to be very honest, the thought of paying off my mortgage, by overcharging this person, who probably would not bat an eyelid, is tempting ) I could not do it! The price has been set, as much to protect the area the cats originate from, as much as anything else! So this person will pay the same as any other person!

It is also on my agenda, that once the Sokoke become popular in the UK, then my cattery will help put a child in Kenya through school!

The Sokoke Cat Club of Great Britain, which I have helped form, will also be holding raffles, and fund raising ideas to help these same children. One of our younger committee members came up with the idea of a 'shoebox' appeal, the idea being, the shoe box be filled with pencils, erasers, rulers, pens, notebooks, calculators etc...............

I do wish, before people are so hasty to judge a person, that they get the whole, rather than a part to concentrate on, and use that to judge them with!

As to kitten prices, I would suggest you do your research also, and I include some links for you;

http://www.glitterglam.co.uk/forsale.htm
http://www.bengal-cat.org.uk/kittens...s%20Expensive?
http://www.karsukasbengals.co.uk/ben...s-for-sale.htm
http://www.nanabush.co.uk/kittens.htm
http://www.bengalcat.co.uk/pet/buying/index.htm

As you can see, most breeders do charge the same, and it is not up to me to do any differently, and undermine the hard work they have already done with the breed. The costs I put up, were not mine, just a good example of most breeders prices for the person enquiring! I did point out that I had some Bengal crosses, should the money be an issue, and am not a snob, as I do have pet moggies who do nothing but live a happy life!
I had an enquiry yesterday for a stud kitten, instead of rubbing my hands with glee, thinking nice bit of dosh! I wanted to know how and where the kitten would be housed until he had grown up into a stud, as I would not be happy with a kitten just being chucked outside, I wanted them to be certain, that they would have to sign a contract that he not be sold on from them entire, but would be spayed and in a pet home, along with many other welfare questions! Needless to say, I have not heard from this person since! If I were the type of person you seem determined to make me out to be, I would then have just said, give me the money, and he's yours!