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Originally Posted by farthing
Sorry, I have to disagree that a vegan diet is natural, as an all meat diet is unnatural, we are naturally omnivores. As I said previously, if you cannot get the required vitamins, whatever from a diet without suppliments it can't be natural. What you do find is that many of the soya milks etc are supplied with the suppliments added, such as B12. I would agree that vegans, if they take suppliments are probably healthier than the general public, because they are more aware of general nutrition and don't eat the rubbish we normally do. 
My concern as far as children are concerned, is whether any research has been done to see the affects of a vegan diet on them, and if they do recieve all the nutrients a growing body needs.
I agree about the ethics of veganism and do have qualms about taking milk, but I have my own chickens, who will live here until they die so don't really worry about having my own eggs, it is difficult to avoid eggs in the outside world though. |
Obviously you are entitled to your opinion, which I respect, but I would just like to respond to a couple of points you raise.
There is a lot of disagreement on what we're meant to eat "naturally", but what I do know is that our entire lives are far from "natural". I mean, how "natural" is it for us to use computers? If you were to strip life back to its "natural" form then we'd be living in caves again. For starters, besides the fact that due to our evolution we have now "progressed" to living in purpose built "caves" called "houses" with all the mod cons, we are no longer able to live the kind of "natural" lives a lot of meat eaters seem to aspire to. But also, if you look at our physical abilities, where do you find proof that we are natural omnivores? I'm sorry, but nature doesn't provide for a "natural option" of building physiques made for eating little bits of flesh that have been cooked, fried or baked - to my knowledge a cooker and a frying pan, or a knife to cut the meat to bite size pieces for that matter, are NOT natural implements. If we were naturally destined to eat meat we'd have strong jaws with long canines and sharp teeth in them. The teeth we have just cannot tear through skin with fur or feathers and rip pieces of flesh off a carcass.
And "if you can't get the required vitamins without supplements it can't be natural" .... well, produce, whether or not of plant origin, is so devoid of what used to be its natural nutrient content through mass produce, cold house storage and what have you, that I doubt that you can derive optimal nutrition from a 'meat and two veg' diet as it is. Most food production as it is is far from natural, what without green houses, use of pesticides, and the amount of antibiotics and growth hormones in animal feed. CJD for example is caused by animals getting fed ground up parts of other, diseased animals - please do tell me how natural it is for a cow to eat ground up sheep?!
"I would agree that vegans, if they take suppliments are probably healthier than the general public, because they are more aware of general nutrition and don't eat the rubbish we normally do."
This says it all really: if you're thinking that being vegan isn't "natural", but you reckon that vegans, who take care of their nutritional intake, are healthier than meat eaters who don't, then what are we discussing? What's the bottom line of this discussion: how you stay healthiest or whether we should continue eating rubbish because at some point it was natural to tear a raw bird apart!
I'm not sure if all vegans, who take supplements, are more healthy than the general public per se - the way I see it
any diet can be healthy or unhealthy, it really is a case of variety, little sugar, fat and salt (which can all be vegan!), a decent amount of fibre and
fresh produce. Many apples you buy at this time of year will have been in cold storage since May - I would not want to make any bets on the vitamin content of those. On the other hand, humans are a hardy species and seem to be able to survive on a diet that is nutritionally completely inadequate, combined with tobacco, alcohol, an unhealthy living environment, stress and no exercise to speak of.
As for raising children on a vegan diet, this
link to the Vegan Society website might be useful. However, as far as I am aware children who have been raised on a vegan diet are all healthy happy children, and why shouldn't they be? There's also a good book for aspiring vegans called "Becoming Vegan", that gives the answers to many questions.
A cyber friend on another forum has been vegan for many years and very healthy, she knows of a lady who has kept her own bone cancer in check for 30(!!!) years, using alternative therapies (i.e. not covered by the NHS) and a virtually
raw, vegan diet! And if that isn't enough she is STILL lifting weights and competing in her class at international level! This is her
website. This same cyber friend feeds her dogs a vegan, homecooked diet, this diet, apart from the occasional treat, does not contain processed foods with additives or "by-products of meat and animal origin". According to her vet, dogs are not "obligate carnivores", which means that, although they are meat eaters, they do not need this to survive in good health. Her vet is completely aware of what she gives them and has commented that her dogs are better fed than some dogs he gets in his practice - or indeed humans! Another vet at the same practice was very sceptical to start with about their diet, but she was the one who got the lab's diagnosis back, saying that her dog has lymphoma, and has seen him over the months while he was receiving treatment. She has now admitted that more close contact with a 'vegan dog' has completely changed her mind! My dogs are fed a meat diet, so although I do not intend to make them vegan, I don't think dogs have to eat meat to be healthy, just as with humans.
Sorry about the novel, this is a subject (you may have guessed!
) that I have strong feelings about.
i also cat eat eggs due to allergies and health......or wheat.....gluten.......sugar........! all for health & being tested for it reasons 
