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if the sire died at 5 suddenly it is highly suspicious, thats of course if it was heart related, do you know? 5 is the "right" age for sudden acute Cardio, in dogs too, I lost a Dobe at 5 to it, he was fine, then his lungs filled with fluid, he had breathing difficulties and was dead in 6mths, but it can be literally suddenly, like dropping down too. Sounds a bit fishy that they would now rehome a sibling (Abi's?) too, maybe the work commitment is a cover? Who knows, im not speculating but you are correct, when a cat dies suddenly like Abi, with a diagnosis like Cardio, the breeder must be informed and do the responsible thing, I only hope all her breeding stock WAS tested, and that the male didnt die of it. |
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I havent heard anything back from the breeder as yet. It was confirmed to me via pm by Sarahd that the father who died was indeed Abi's and that he died of breathing difficulties and that he had collapsed, which from everything I have been reading, sounds very similar to the HCM symptoms that can be displayed. |
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 Perhaps SarahD would pass it onto her, if she knows her? Sarah, this lady must be told HCM in cats is thought to have an inherited property, whilst its not clear how, it certainly appears to be passed on on somehow, sometimes. People who have bought kittens from her, by that Cat should be told. |
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The breeder of Abi has been informed of all of this. When the sire died her vet assured her it wasnt HCM. Yes I did reply via PM and said what I believed to be the way the father died as that is what I was told. I have to draw you back to the point that was made about cats without papers and rescue cats having problems tracing their parents. Abi was sold by myself with the exact papers i got from her breeder and nothing was held back by me. So all her immediate parentage was on there. Just wanted to point this fact out It seems there is a lot of finger pointing going on at the moment and a lot of insinuation not just on this forum which isn't going to get anyone anywhere. I have done what i felt was right in informing Abi's breeder of the situation regarding Abi. It is not my place to be informing people of things regarding other breeders. I dont think the breeder is using any excuse as a cover as she is not that kind of person and loves her cats dearly. His death was very hard for her to come to terms with and that is the reason why she decided to downsize initially. If there was such a coverup and this was an ongoing problem then why would myself and a close friend both either purchase breeding queens or use the boy in question for stud?????????????? Steps are now being taken for other offspring from the stud boy but different parents to be tested for the HCM gene and then should there be a problem I am sure the breeder will then take things further. |
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I assume then that the stud Cat had a PM to determine his cause of death, obviously a Vet cannot just say what it is without difinitive proof. The other Cats that have been tested, was it done by a cardio Vet? Im sorry for the questions and I have no reason to doubt you, but Cardio is very close to my heart (excuse pun!) having lost a dog with it and am currently involved with Cardio scanning and drug trials for Dobermanns with it. Dobes have to be tested annually, an ECG, Doppler etc.. must be done by a specialist, a normal Vet cannot do it. |
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A post mortem wasnt done as far as I am aware I really dont know. All I know is that the vet said he didnt believe his symptoms and illness was that of HCM The cats that are being tested and awaiting their results at the moment have been tested via DNA As I have said in my other posts on this forum this breeding line was nothing to do with me short of my wanting a loving home for a gorgeous cat that I was rehoming. i am not trying to pass the book here but cannot be held responsible for people not being informed of things that effect a breeding programme that isnt my own |
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I dont think anyone is blaming you, why would they? If a PM wasnt done there is no way a vet can say what a Cat died from, just guesswork. Im not saying either way, but this thread caught my eye as I said I am interested in heart issues like this having had a dog with it. I would hope that whatever the stud cat died of, with his daughter doing the same, young aswell, that the breeder has informed the breeders who have used her cat and tell them what she DOES know, not what a vet thinks "might" be the cause. By that I mean telling the symptoms of her Cats death, not that she knew he had HCM. Dont take offence Sarah, none of this is your doing, even the breeders doing, just it seems things have been gone about in the wrong way. |
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Hi Dawn Sorry if i come across on the defensive but I feel that for not the first time on this forum i need to defend myself (not from you) Yes I think i did give a wrong piece of information out to Elaine at one point and then found that to be incorrect for that i hold my hands up. The rest of the information I gave via PM was information FACT that was retrieved from certain websites and NOT accusations. Some were suggestions of possible causes as shown again on factual websites and NOT my suggestions. I agree this has been gone about in the wrong way. There is a right way and a wrong way to sort things out as delicate as this and it is to speak to people in a private manner not via slanging matches on public forum boards. Also can i just add the cat hadnt been used for outside stud as far as I know. He was only used by herself and once by me. So thankfully it is only the direct lines that come from her that are involved. The reason why she didnt contact people beforehand i should imagine is that she didnt know there was a problem to inform people about. As far as she was concerned her beloved cat had just become suddenly ill and passed away. No definate diagnosis was given as far as I am aware other than that he didnt believe it was HCM As i said its now in the breeders hands so to speak as to where she goes from here. So now I've come on here and cleared things up from my part. I am now drawing a line under this whole matter for my involvement and i agree its now down to the breeder and whoever concerned to discuss this in a rational manner and find some kind of resolve. But not via public forums. Hopefully this sad and devastating disease can be made more widely known about and breeders will make a point of testing for this disease more. I think the testing for this gene in the ragdolls is still very new and currently there are not many breeders that do test for it but dont quote me on that |
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I think if the person that owned Abi is in touch with the breeder, then yes its now down to them to discuss their concerns. The last thing people need to do is to be shunned or told these conditions dont exist etc... which sadly does apply to some breeders, however gladly not in this case. I know the lady that bred my Cats tests all hers for HCM and PKD as I believe it can affect them to, its the responsible thing to do. I really only disagree with the fact a PM wasnt done on an apparently healthy, young cat, that had suddenly died. This to me is very suspect and of course if breathing difficulties are mentioned, the the first thing you think of is HCM. I can also understand how upsetting it must be to lose a Cat a just a couple years old, and when you get a diagnosis like HCM you feel you want and need to inform people, or at least those affected via siblings etc.. as you dont want anyone else to have to go through what you have just done. When I lost my 9yr old Cat (found him dead in another garden) it would of driven me mad not to know what killed him, as to all intents and puposes, from looks alone, he was unharmed. What I couldnt see on him was the internal injuried caused by a huge impact. Ive discussed genetic and inherited diseases before with dogs and cats, I personally feel that a dog or cat used for breeding should have ALL tests available for its breed in order for kittens/puppies to be registered, and that if an animal has been used for breeding and it dies unexpectedly a PM must be done to determine the cause. I view it as a positive way forward. |
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Just to clear up the bit about the papers, it was the last owner of Abi who did not pass them on and says they are lost. As for breathing difficulties in cats, from what i understand, if she had had a punctured lung, it would have shown up on xray, if she had had athsma or some respritory infection, she would have shown signs of wheezing, coughing etc but the vet said before performing xray etc that he felt it more likely to be HCM or some sort of sarcoma. She was later ruled to have died from HCM. I felt it was important to highlight Abi's sad story and draw peoples attention to this condition and ofcourse we want answers as to why a young, healthy cat died so young and so suddenly. Knowing that her father died so young and so suddenly with out definative cause only hightened my reasons for doing so and does raise the question of a breeders moral obligation to inform owners of cats that he fathered what has happened so they may be aware or take the apropriate steps to make sure that all the fathered cats in question would be ok also. |
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