urgent advice needed

[wilbar]

Originally Posted by alexgirl73

Thank you for all your suggestions Wilbur The love/hate bit, well that's easy. They will sit and groom each other quite happily on numerous occasions, especially Cooper, he is always washing her face. They will lie sleeping together on the sofa etc, and at these times seem the best of friends.

We unfortunately don't have a spare room that can be made just Teddies . At the moment the set up is, 2 litter trays (and nowhere really to put any more), multi height cat tree, food and water bowls in the kitchen, Teddie has her little basket bed on the stairs which neither of the other 2 touch. All 3 cats are indoor only as we live beside quite a busy road. And even if I could let them into the garden, it's easy to escape from.

I will dot food and water bowls about the house, but part of the problem is that Cooper is a very large cat, and whatever the other 2 don't eat, he scoffs. Also I can put cushions on the dining room chairs etc that she can jump up to. I just can't figure out what the catalyst is for this. As I said, it used to happen on occasion, but now it's daily and it's horrible to hear and see

Ok ~ perhaps a bit of detective work is needed ?

So Teddie & Cooper aren't arch-enemies & can be amicable & tolerant towards each other ~ but something is setting off Cooper's attacks on Teddie!

Would it be possible for you to keep a diary for a week or so to see if you can pinpoint what triggers the attacks? Do you think they happen when you're not there, or only when you're at home? Do other family members witness these episodes? Do they happen at the same time of day/night, or before or after feeding, or after Cooper's been honing his predatory skills (playing!), or only when Teddie or Cooper are in a particular location? There are so many things that it could be that it's difficlut to be more specific at this stage.

If you & your family can be very observant for a while & see if any of the above factors (or any others you can think of) could trigger the attacks, it may help pinpoint the reason. Watch closely what happens beforehand, particularly each cat's body language, & how each cat reacts during & after these events. If you can learn to predict when it's about to kick off, then you have a better chance of interrrupting it.

But don't punish either cat ~ that will only make it worse.

It is possible that certain resources aren't plentiful enough for Cooper so he's prepared to try to oust Teddie so he can get more. It maybe food ~ if Cooper feels he's not getting enough? I'm not suggesting that you give him more than is good for him, but perhaps thinking of ways that take him longer to eat his food, so when he's eventually eaten it all up, he's more satisfied? Or ensuring that Teddie is fed separately?

If you do find something, let me know & I'll try to help.

[wilbar]

Originally Posted by Squirrel

Sorry... I meant that even with not being able to actually see what's happening for yourself, you always seem to have constructive advice whenever something goes wrong within your area of expertese. Therefore, if something seems to me that it might be to do with behaviour, I'm always interested to see what you have to say on the matter - even if am not likely to come across the problem myself.

Thanks Squirrel ~ I understand now

I do have feline behaviour qualification & I do take a few referrals from local vets (in fact I only take cases on vet referral) so I'm used to the "detective" part of understanding feline behaviour.

IMO the trick is understanding the ethology of feline behaviour. Ethology is the study of the repertoire of behaviours carried out by a species, including the context, frequency & duration of the behaviours. In this way we can start to tell what is normal, & therefore what is abnormal. Ethologists ask the following questions to see why animals behave in the way that they do:

 What is the function of the behaviour?
 How & why did it evolve?
 What are the mechanisms of the behaviour ~ the anatomical features & the physiology, &,
 How does it help the animal to survive?

So, for example, if we look at the reasons why cats scratch furniture from an ethological perspective & answer those questions we would find:

 The function of the behaviour ~ to leave an olfactory & visual signal to communicate to other cats that “Felix woz ‘ere!”
 How & why did it evolve ~ small wild felines are solitary hunters, particularly at dawn, dusk & at night & in general lead fairly solitary lives, only coming together to mate, so they cannot always communicate directly with body language. By leaving visual & olfactory signals they are able to communicate gender, age, physical health, when they were last in that area, in other words, territorial claims.
 What are the mechanisms of the behaviour ~ stretching vertically or horizontally to rake their front claws on a shreddable surface thereby leaving a pheromonal message from the glands between their pads & a visual message in the form of a shredded surface.
 How does it help the animal survive ~ by attempting to inhibit the movement of other cats in the territory that it has claimed as its own & reducing the chances of conflict between cats.

If you have a good understanding of the feline ethogram, it explains so much about what cats do & why ~ it certainly opened my eyes & the more I found out, the more I started to look at our pet cats in a totally different light!

[alexgirl73]

Thanks Wilbur, I'll give the diary a go and see if it can pinpoint what's going on. Yes the rest of the family witness them, but tbh very rarely do we see the start of it. The first sign is usually a loud screech from Teddie then the 2 of them haring round the house. I think he does do it when we're not there as we have come home on a number of occasions to find fur all over the house! It does seem to tend to be at night time. One thing I forgot to mention is that we think Cooper is slightly brain damaged. When he was just a wee kitten he got himself entangled in a bag cord and strangled himself. I found him literally seconds from death, ever since then he doesn't miaow, let's out a kind of whimper now and then, but is otherwise a silent cat, and tbh he's not all there.

[wilbar]

The bits of the jigsaw are starting to fit together now.

So Cooper maybe a sandwich short of a picnic then. That could well have something to do with it perhaps his body language, or lack of vocalisation is something Teddie finds odd & therefore scary, & maybe her reaction sets off Cooper & then it escalates?

The more the cats practice/rehearse these behaviours, the more ingrained & habit-forming they become. So you need to be as observant as you can to stop it before it starts. Distraction would be the best way to go ~ maybe try to teach Cooper a word for a recall & rewarde him with a tasty treat when he comes to you?

But my earlier advice of finding a bolt hole for Teddie still stands. She needs somewhere she can escape to, so she can avoid the confrontations with Cooper otherwise her health may get worse & she'll be feeling pretty rotten. And especially at night or when you're not there it's important to find somewhere for Teddie to escape to.

But let me know how you get on with the diary & identifying any particular triggers.

[Liz]

I use Zylkene on my ferals when they first come in as shredding me and wearing their food isn't much fun - its me that wears it!

We pop one capule on their wet food at night and in the morning for about 3 weeks whilst they are in isolation and find after that we don't need it also helps everyone calm down seems to take the edge off

I have used it onthe dpgs for firweowrks to but Sky and Sunny aren't bothered at all by them unlike the late Jazz who used to sleep in my dressing room as it had no windows

Ours have high places and I have food on the scratching post in the cat room for Blue feral who now after 2 years doesn't exit the room when I am in it

[alexgirl73]

I've never heard of zylkene Liz, where do u get it from? I have tried rescue remedy in the past with no effect.

Well, got woken up at 6am this morning by them going hammer and tongs at it outside my door. Been quiet so far today but I think that's more to do with the fact the sun is shining lol and they have all found sun traps to lie in . Now have water and food dishes in the living room, dining room and top landing, so will see if that helps any.

[Liz]

Zylkene can be got from the vets and also from places like Vet UK

It is natural and we have had no issues with it at all

A Feliway plug is is good to and lots of catnip we have rug parties with the loose stuff and it makes them all sociable

[alexgirl73]

I'm using feliway already, catnip Teddie doesn't react to and Cooper and Broxi take it or leave it (fussy besoms). So far been nice and quiet today, but sitting thinking about it it tends to be at night that the action takes place

[Liz]

If catnip has no reaction you can get honeysuckle and valerian which has the same effect on the ones who don't do catnip we have aone here a former foster from sunny harbour rescue she loves her valarian though

[dandysmom]

Just for the record, Leia's a non-reactor to catnip, and also to valerian ........ was plain dried valerian, though, not mixed with honeysuckle.