Vaccinations.........

[Moli]

Originally Posted by borderdawn

Its a real thorn to us Mags, I will quote on dog I board, a Greyhound, she has an immune meditated disease which IS caused and triggered by over vaccination, yet their holiday means more, but I blame the Vet that continues to vaccinate her, why? It totally contrdicts ALL guidelines anyway, she is not healthy, yet still vaccinated! Thyroid problems have been linked with over vaccination in dogs and cats, I cant find the article Id like to share, but if I do Ill post it, will make interesting reading for those that are interested.

I would ceertainly be interested in reading it Dawn............

[borderdawn]

Originally Posted by farthing

What's that for, that's just being nasty, is it because i disagree with you.
I WILL read it and have in fact flicked through it already. But you are right what is the point!

I wasnt being nasty, you said you hadnt the time, nor the access? Which I assume means the net, which you are on now, I posted links you didnt need to look for, just read, your post read as you were not interested in reading proof, just speaking from your point of view alone. As I said, if thats your only view, there is little point.

[borderdawn]

Originally Posted by pcspik

Just to put my side across: I very rarely take holidays. Mainly due to my fear of flying. If I do, then it is usually 4 days at the most in the UK. Also due to the cost (especially this year!) as I think that caring for my cats properly is more important than any holiday.

Although my cats live pretty much indoors 24/7, like I said, I cannot take them to my parent's house where I spend most of Christmas due to a non FIV cat living there. Personally for me, I think it is irresponsible for them to be left alone for 10 days without supervision. I have left them alone for 24 hours with more than enough food and water, but any longer, I think it is unfair. At least in the cattery, they get fresh food, water and their trays cleaned at least once a day, which if they were left alone in my flat they would not. Also they are more reliant on me for attention then if they went outside, at least in a cattery they get to see humans and have fuss, which left alone they would not get. Plus if they were unwell, at least the cattery could take them to the vet, but if they were left alone for 10 days I would not notice, of which the consequences could be potentially fatal.

It is not practical always to go back and to every single day (not to mention the cost!) to my flat and my parent's house every single day over Christmas. Plus I cant drive, so I am relying on someone else, who may be very well over the limit. That is without being ill, last Christmas I was so ill I could barely stand up (I could only just make to the toilet) let alone take care of a cat. It's not the first Christmas I have been extremely unwell.

When the cat dies and they (my parents) do not replace it then yes I could in theory take my cats over Christmas and save boarding fess. Sometimes it is not about being selfish, sometimes being in a cattery is better all round for them. Plus if I left the cats alone for 10 days I am sure that the RSPCA would come knocking on my door.

So really me putting my cats in a cattery is not selfish, it's so that they can get a decent standard of care over Christmas which they deserve. I personally doubt that very few people putting their cats in a cattery are, which I do not like about your post.

Hey I dont think you are being selfish, Im talking about people who have animals with diseases that were caused by over vaccination but still have them done because they want to leave them in kennels to go on holiday. As I just said, the Vets are to blame IMO, they still do it!

I have managed a boarding klennels and cattery for the last 17yrs, Im very familar with this sort of stuff, I dont think for one second you were being selfish.

[borderdawn]

I still cant find it!!

This is one that states hypothyroidism in dogs is an auto immune disease, of course any immune supressed animal shouldnt be vaccinated, but they are!! Auto immune diseases are often triggered by over vaccination, this is stated in the other links I think.

http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/dog-hypo.htm

[alexgirl73]

well, to put my tuppence worth in lol. None of my cats are vaccinated. My cats do not go out at all, and are therefore not coming into contatc with other cats, and the literature I have read (and no I'm not going hunting for it) says that after 6 months of age, most cats own auto immune systems have kicked in and unless they are going out where they will be coming into contact with other cats, then there is no need to vaccinate. I follow good hygiene practices with my foster cats and as they are all housed in the garden I have no worries on that score.

[Moli]

Chancer as you all know was a stray, he is about 10 now, and I have never had him vaccinated, and out of all the cats he is the healthy one, never ever gets anything wrong with him...That says a lot...

[Kazz]

See I think it screws you needing to get them vaccinated to be covered for insurance and to get them into boarding kennels....I am not keen on the boosters if I had my way I would vaccinate as kittens/pups then first two boosters ....butyou need to have the boosters..... but I also figure, sometimes you have to eat a little dirt in life.

I maintained Sal's vacinations and Tess's when I was poorly just so if need be they could be kennelled if the need arose.... just to take the pressure if needed of the family. Another precaution, same as the insurance.

Nothing is plain sailing and doing the best you can like they say sometimes cheese crackers save the world sometimes they kill ya.....go figure.

I do think though the older my animals get the less likely I am to get boosters for them....

[farthing]

Originally Posted by borderdawn

I wasnt being nasty, you said you hadnt the time, nor the access? Which I assume means the net, which you are on now, I posted links you didnt need to look for, just read, your post read as you were not interested in reading proof, just speaking from your point of view alone. As I said, if thats your only view, there is little point.

What I meant by time and access was-1. time, I would be trying to find both sides of the discussion so looking to see if there is anything agreeing with vaccinations
and 2. access, many times when I have tried to find out about something, medical and scientific sites require you to pay for the paper, and sorry no matter how interested I am, I'm not paying for it.

[Elaine]

Winston was an indoor cat and never vaccinated because of that, he lived for 21 years. At 18 and a half he was diagnosed with CRF, first time he had been at the vets since being neutered, the vet did make me feel guilty for not having him vaccinated and rejected my arguement.
On getting Eva and later on Bernie too, they have been vaccinated every year since I had them. Eva is now 5 and on her last booster visit I talked with the vet about stopping thier vacc's as they do not come into contact with other cats which is when he said that they could be vaccinated every 3 years instead of yearly but he wouldnt have told me that if I hadnt asked about it and hadnt already been reading articles about the pro's and cons of vaccinations. So after this year, they will no longer be vaccinated.
Being a pet sitter, and there are many of us across the country, people dont really need to put their pets into Kennels/catteries Sorry BD, poaching yer business

[borderdawn]

Ok, for the record here is one of the most popular data sheets for canine vaccination, Ill copy it as I can highlight a few bits, its from the Intervet site.

<H1>

Nobivac PPi data sheet.
Live, attenuated, freeze dried virus vaccine containing canine parainfluenza virus (CPi) strain Cornell at least 5.5 log TCID50 per dose, and traces of antibiotics (neomycin, polymyxin B, gentamycin or amphotericin B) as remnant from the antigen production.
Each vial contains a single dose for reconstitution prior to use.

Uses
For active immunisation of dogs from the age of 8 weeks onward to reduce clinical signs of canine parainfluenza infection and to reduce viral shedding.

Dosage and administration
One ml solvent (Nobivac Solvent, Nobivac Lepto 2 (canine leptospirosis vaccine) or Nobivac Rabies) must be used to reconstitute the freeze-dried Nobivac Pi vaccine. After reconstitution, the vaccine should be used within 30 minutes.
One ml of the reconstituted vaccine should be given by subcutaneous injection.
Sterile equipment should be used for administration but avoid contamination of vaccine with traces of disinfectant or spirit.

Primary course vaccination
• Before the age of 12 weeks:
Two vaccinations, each with a single dose: the first vaccination from the age of 8 weeks onwards and the second vaccination 2-4 weeks later.
• From the age of 12 weeks onwards: single vaccination, with one dose per animal.
Onset of immunity: 4 weeks after vaccination.

Booster vaccination
Annually with a single dose.

The normally recommended vaccination regime using Nobivac DHPPi, Lepto 2, Pi and KC would be as follows:

6-8 weeks Nobivac DHPPi + Nobivac Lepto 2
10 weeks Nobivac DHPPi + Nobivac Lepto 2
1st annual booster Nobivac DHPPi + Nobivac Lepto 2
2nd annual booster Nobivac Pi + Nobivac Lepto 2
3rd annual booster Nobivac Pi + Nobivac Lepto 2
4th annual booster Nobivac DHPPi + Nobivac Lepto 2
5th annual booster Nobivac Pi + Nobivac Lepto 2
6th annual booster Nobivac Pi + Nobivac Lepto 2
7th annual booster Nobivac DHPPi + Nobivac Lepto 2
etc.

Prior to any period of increased risk from canine parainfluenza virus infection:
Nobivac Pi or Nobivac KC.

Prior to any period of increased risk from canine bordetellosis or ‘kennel cough’ of unknown aetiology: Nobivac KC.

Contra-indications, warnings etc.
Only healthy dogs should be vaccinated.
Nobivac Pi has been shown to be safe for use in pregnant bitches that have previously been vaccinated with a Nobivac vaccine containing the Pi component.
Some dogs may show discomfort during injection.
A diffuse swelling, up to 5 mm in diameter, may be observed at the site of injection. Occasionally this swelling may be hard and painful and last for up to 3 days post injection.
After subcutaneous administration with Nobivac Lepto 2 or Nobivac Rabies, a diffuse swelling may be observed at the injection site in most puppies. Occasionally this swelling may be hard and painful but this will diminish gradually and disappear after 2-3 weeks.
In the rare event of a hypersensitivity reaction following vaccination, administer an antihistamine, corticosteroid or adrenaline, without delay and by the most immediate route.

FOR ANIMAL TREATMENT ONLY. KEEP OUR OF REACH AND SIGHT OF CHILDREN.

Pharmaceutical precautions
Store in original package at 2-8°C (in a refrigerator). Do not freeze. Protect from light. Care should be taken to avoid prolonged or repetitive exposure to high ambient temperatures following withdrawal from the refrigerator prior to use.
In the case of accidental self-injection, seek medical advice immediately and show the package insert or the label to the physician.

Dispose of waste material by boiling, incineration or immersion in an appropriate disinfectant, in accordance with national requirements.

Legal category
POM-V To be supplied only on veterinary prescription.


Package quantities
Cartons of 10 and 50 single dose vials. Not all presentations may be marketed.

Further information
No information is available on the concurrent use of this vaccine with any other, except the leptospirosis and/or rabies vaccines of the Nobivac series. When immunisation is a part of a comprehensive vaccination programme these liquid vaccines can be used to reconstitute the freeze-dried Nobivac Pi. It is recommended that no other vaccines should be administered within 14 days before or after vaccination with Nobivac Pi.

Duration of immunity has not been demonstrated, but an anamnestic response is produced in dogs given a revaccination one year after basic vaccination.

As maternally derived passive antibody can interfere with the response to vaccination in very young animals, a final dose at 10 weeks of age or older is recommended.

A protective antibody titre is not accomplished in all vaccinated dogs.
A good immune response is reliant on the reaction of an immunogenic agent and a fully competent immune system. Immunogenicity of the vaccine antigen will be reduced by poor storage or inappropriate administration. Immunocompetence of the animal may be compromised by a variety of factors including poor health, nutritional status, genetic factors, concurrent drug therapy and stress.

SO the highlighed bits, dogs MUST be healthy before vaccination, duration of immunity has not been demonstarted, a complete immune system is necessary for a good response, and the reason puppies and kittens get 2 vaccs is stated lastly, their mothers provide immune protection which renders the first vaccine ineffective in most cases, so more is given a couple weeks later!


</H1>