GCCF code of ethics - buying a new kitten

[candyshandy]

Well I have just booked a pedigree kitten (my first one, my other 3 are rescues). I looked at the GCCF website and noted the recommendations and guidelines for new owners, questions to ask etc. I found it really helpful and the breeder was quite happy to answer those questions and as a result I feel entirely comfortable that I will be picking up a healthy well adjusted kitten.

There are also many reasons why pedigree cats end up in rescue. Two of mine were due to the owner developing a mental illness and the other was found in field just off a very busy A road. She was advertised for a few months but no-one claimed her.

My personal thought why older pedigrees are in rescue is that the owners are in a way 'ashamed' of letting the breeder know they can no longer provide a home for whatever reason.

There are many unscrupulous people in all areas of life and breeding is no exception. Surely by setting guidelines for newbies to follow when they are looking to adopt thats got to be a good thing.

[Kay]

As far as you know.

Yes Dawn I do know. I have had emails, phone calls and letters from every single new owner that has had one of my babies to say how wonderfully they have settled. 3 people actually came back for another kitten because of how relaxed they were. I don't think they were all lying

From what? A new kitten going into a home at 8 weeks is EXACTLY the same as a puppy, do dog breeders keep them till they are fully vaccinated?

It is inevitable that a younger kitten is more vunerable than an older one. As a younger baby is more vunerable than an older one. . As for where puppies came it to this I don't know.

Read the free ads, its full of "pedigree" kittens without papers.

I agree, Dawn, the free ads and shop windows are full of ads for so called pedigree kittens without papers. All I can say is they are not mine nor will they ever be from any of mine. My contract is legal and binding, this has been agreed with a solicitor, and if the kitten is not neutered/spayed by the age of 6 months I am with in my rights to take the kitten back and believe you me I would.

The GCCF are the same as the Kennel Club nothing more, they issue recommendations and guidelines, if you mated your cat every 8mths or so and bred 4 litters a year or 14 litters a year, providing you have a reg number on the active register, they will register the kittens. They do not care how many kittens you breed, please dont make out they are anything other than what they are, a registration organisation, and one losing support at that!

I never mentioned anything about how many kittens bred in a year I stated if a breeder goes against the guidelines then they could, if reported, face the Disciplinary Committee who will fine and ban breeders if they break the guidelines. They are as I said listed regularly in Our Cats.


You said it Kay, money drives the GCCF! As long as they pay the fine they will continue to register kittens.

Have to agree they are money minded but so are a lot of other organisations it doesn't mean that are not bothered about the kittens. If you were to get a speeding fine and paid you wouldn't then expect to be banned as well. Unless it was a secone offence which is just the same as the GCCF.


Playing devils advocate really, but dont make out the GCCF are some super duper organisation because they are no different to any other.[/quote]

I certainly do not make the GCCF out to be a super duper organisation.

[Kazz]

Originally Posted by Moli

I have 4 registered cats, but since joining Catsey, must now admit, I would never buy another....Catsey has opened my eyes to breeders....

Now I am just the opposite I have never had a pedigree cat/kitten however, from this site I have come to realise there are as in dogs (my experience of pedigree's soz for the example on a cat site) is research; research; research...then research some more get personal recomendations....then research a little more......even people with experience get "bitten by not so honest/good breeders" so therefore....the adage "BUYER BEWARE" is the mantra I would apply.

However I can't see me getting a pedigree cat in the near future.....but if I did I would ask for help from those on here I believe do there best for there cat/kittens....however there are so many pedigree and moggie in rescue that would be my first port of call.

Karen

[Kazz]

Originally Posted by bobbie3917

if so many people are against the GCCF or pedigree cats why are there so many on here?

Not sure of anyone else but I joined the site because I had cats and wanted to chat to like minded people, may not have cats no but stayed because I have made friends/aquaintances with many. I am reading and replying to this particular thread because it interests me.... enough of an explaination???????????????

[borderdawn]

Yes Dawn I do know. I have had emails, phone calls and letters from every single new owner that has had one of my babies to say how wonderfully they have settled. 3 people actually came back for another kitten because of how relaxed they were. I don't think they were all lying

Probably not lying no, but people do stretch the truth at times, especially if it suits them. Not saying your "owners" specifically but it certainly happens.

As for where puppies came it to this I don't know

Well tell me why kittens must be fully vaccinated before leaving the breeder and puppies not? Why is it beneficial just to Cats? Its well known that the prime age for restructure in puppies is 6-8weeks, why are Cats different and why is it beneficial to them?

All I can say is they are not mine nor will they ever be from any of mine. My contract is legal and binding, this has been agreed with a solicitor, and if the kitten is not neutered/spayed by the age of 6 months I am with in my rights to take the kitten back and believe you me I would.

Yet earlier you said:

If they don't have the pedigree then they have no names or registration numbers of parnts, grandparents etc.

Doesnt stop them breeding "pedigree" kittens though and selling them does it? Come on Kay, you know it goes on all the time.

Have to agree they are money minded but so are a lot of other organisations it doesn't mean that are not bothered about the kittens. If you were to get a speeding fine and paid you wouldn't then expect to be banned as well. Unless it was a secone offence which is just the same as the GCCF.

Means nothing Kay, very few and far between just like the KC, full of all these "misdemeanors" every month, nobody takes a dying bit of notice, and as I said the GCCF are losing credit because of all their "rules" which incidently are not all to do with the health of Cats!

[smudgley]

I agree with all of Dawns comments above.

Kittens have a critical socialisation period & also an optimum time where they will bond with the people around them. 13 weeks is way past this time. So although I'm sure kittens are well socialised & have been exposed to lots of things, how can they have one-to-one attention and bond with thier new owners during the critical time if they are still with the breeder and all their siblings?

One last point... it seems what the GCCF says goes according to lots of people, however who are the GCCF, who are the people there that are making these guidelines? I bet it's not a panel of behavourists who have studied cat behaviour!

[Fran]

This may be so for hardy moggie kittens Smudgley but in my breed certainly, there is no way that kittens are anywhere near ready for their new homes at 8 weeks. Firstly they are far too small, weaning is notoriously difficult with meezers and often they are not even fully weaned at 8 weeks of age. Also in pedigree breeds, genetic problems are much more common than in moggies due to the restricted gene pool size. A lot of these problems don't present themselves untill 6 weeks plus, a good breeder will want to ensure that her kittens are healthy before considering re-homing them. I don't think you can compare moggies and pedigrees at all with regards to re-homing. Smaller breeds of dogs are often kept until much later as Kay I am sure will confirm as she used to breed chihuahuas.

[Fran]

The other side of the coin too is if breeders on here were selling pedigree kittens not GCCF registered, you would all be up in arms saying that we were kitten farming and wanting to know why we weren't registering them. Well in order for them to be registered, a breeder has to comply with the GCCF code of ethics, irrespective of who the panel are and what their knowledge is.

[borderdawn]

This may be so for hardy moggie kittens Smudgley but in my breed certainly, there is no way that kittens are anywhere near ready for their new homes at 8 weeks. Firstly they are far too small, weaning is notoriously difficult with meezers and often they are not even fully weaned at 8 weeks of age. Also in pedigree breeds, genetic problems are much more common than in moggies due to the restricted gene pool size. A lot of these problems don't present themselves untill 6 weeks plus, a good breeder will want to ensure that her kittens are healthy before considering re-homing them. I don't think you can compare moggies and pedigrees at all with regards to re-homing. Smaller breeds of dogs are often kept until much later as Kay I am sure will confirm as she used to breed chihuahuas.

Hang on a minute Fran, you were critical of Porsha's breeder, yet Im sure you thought she was great before her problems arose? Did you have her at 13wks? So therefore if you did, the issues she has were not able to be detected previous to that age. What problems are you speaking of? Ones that can be tested for? or problems evident in Siamese/Orientals that are rearing their heads but breeders are not doing much about? Dont read anything into that, just curious as to what you meant.

Speaking honestly we took an Oriental to the Vets a few weeks back, one that we were boarding, he was horrified at the exaggerated shape of the Cat, and went on to say that because of such breeding trends the breed as a whole is a wash with genetic faults and abnormalities, not sure what he meant by that but from your statement it seems you are aware of some sort of issues affecting these Cats because of the small gene pool. Perhaps if breeders started to worry more about the construction and health of the Cats they are breeding rather than the GCCF and what they "recommend" concerns for health at such a young age would become a thing of the past for people such as yourself.

Re small breeds of Dogs, no not the case at all. I have friends that breed Chi's and Poms, all go to their new homes at 8 weeks, being at the "top" for the last 40 yrs in Pom world, I think they would notice if rehoming at 8 weeks was in any way detrimental to the puppies welfare.

What does happen a lot in small breeds, is because of their size the breeders are in a better position to "run on " a youngster to see which is best for them to keep.

[Fran]

Firstly, Porsha doesn't have any genetic problems and yes I had her a 13 weeks old but she was a sickly kitten, nothing to do with genetics, she was poorly grown kitten with bad diarrhoea issues that if you remember turned out to be Giardia.

I wasn't referring to specific gentic problems individually or within my breed alone. Merely pointing out that things like heart murmours can take a while to be detected. That is just one example, of course there are many other gentic problems arising too. Yes there are genetic problems in every breed. A lot of them have no specific tests available.

running stock on brings a whole different dimension to the thread doesn't it? because if we are saying puppies and kittens should be in their new homes at 7/8 weeks of age then is it ethical to run on stock only to re-home at a ater date if it doesn't make the grade. Surely that then is not in the best interests of the pup/kitten?

At the end of the day, you can argue this until you are blue in the face but the fact remans that an ethical breeder will register their kittens. To register kittens with the GCCF (the governing body of the cat fancy) then you have to abide by their rules and regulations and those are that the kittens should not be re-homed before 13 weeks of age and should be health checked and fully vaccinated..

What ages where your pedigree cats Dawn when took them home?