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19-01-2008, 09:51 PM   #21

Re: Is 5 litters too much? (off topic posts from GD thread)


Quote:
Originally Posted by smudgley
I'm not joining in.... but just to say on a general note....yes oxytocin is peanuts to buy, but is a very powerful drug & needs to be administered under close supervision of a vet. But if given when there is secondary inertia it can quite easily cause a uterus to contract so much that the uterus can rupture & cause real problems. Not a drug that should be sold to people who are not medically trained.

Bills vary from vet to vet. Some will charge £50 per shot of oxytocin. I have an itemised bill I can show you for £50 per jab and the bitch was given 3 jabs.

C/S can vary from £300 up to over £1000.

I have a vet bill awaiting payment for a dog C/S for £1400. Ridiculous but true!

last comment on the subject...... Lab pups are £550 / £600, well the breeders we deal with are charging that.


And that's it from me on this subject.....

THE END!

Ok, I said that was it, but Dawn I think you are being harsh... how do you think GD's should be bred then out of interest? And I think it's unfair to say they have haggered faces. They are kept in tip top condition & are retired at 7yrs, most then go on to live to 14/16yrs.

And how do GD's gain from their dogs? What exactly do GD's gain?
@ Smudgley.
Personally I wouldnt breed more than 3 litters from any bitch I think thats plenty, especially when you consider they have upto 14 pups at a time (I know not every time) but the chosen breeds do have big litters.

I went to a GD fete/show thingy a couple of years ago, it was in aid of GD too. There were loads of brood bitches and ex breeding bitches there and an awful lot of them looked terrible. under carriages on the floor, very very old and tired looking and some of them were still being used. Perhaps it had little to do with being bred from every year for about 5 yrs, but I think it might. Its personal opinion only, many people use dogs in this way and for different reasons. I never said they werent care for either, I said they were cared for beautifully!

What do GD get out of it? Well they are running a business. They are an organisation that can afford an awful lot, the very care I was talking of etc... so they must in fact get enough to be able to employ people to run the GD, train the dogs, and pay puppy walkers etc..

If you want to talk about what they hope to achieve, then Id see that differently. I think they'd like to achieve what they already do, providing people with vision difficulties with dogs, that usually totally transform their lives and also give them a loving companion to share their working lives together with.



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19-01-2008, 10:02 PM   #22

Re: Is 5 litters too much? (off topic posts from GD thread)


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19-01-2008, 10:12 PM   #23

Re: Is 5 litters too much? (off topic posts from GD thread)


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19-01-2008, 10:31 PM   #24

Re: Is 5 litters too much? (off topic posts from GD thread)


Originally Posted by smudgley

We are not short at all on bitches Random.
But 4 / 5 litters is what we consider a reasonable number.
Why how many litters do you think they should have. Don't forget they are being bred for a working home, not for the fun of it or for money as lots of litters are.

IMO 2 or 3 litters maximum. Of course I am aware of what they are being bred for but just because they are cared for impeccibly, want for nothing and their pups have the best future imaginable, does not give anyone the right to use them as a breeding a machine. What is wrong with breeding a bitch when she is 2 and 4 and then using a daughter from her first litter who will then be 2 and old enough to breed from when her mum has retired?

If these bitches were not associated with GD a lot of people would see this as puppy farming. Having a litter takes a lot out of a bitch and imo 5 litters, especially with one every single year is a lot.



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19-01-2008, 10:36 PM   #25

Re: Is 5 litters too much? (off topic posts from GD thread)


Quote:
Originally Posted by tilly
I for one resent the implication that any dog I hope to or will ever own is a usable commodity. and I am truly sorry I ever bother saying anything and I will make sure to keep quite next time.

I would also like to know why you feel the need to be so rude as it is offensive and ruins any enjoyment I might have from coming to catsey.

I am off to delete my original post as I bitterly regret starting it.

sally
Please do not take it to heart Sally it is just a subject that a lot of people have very different views on. No-one is suggesting that you personally are cruel or using any animal as a commodity. There is no need to have your old thread removed, i'm sure you will do a wonderful job with your brood bitch.



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19-01-2008, 10:37 PM   #26

Re: Is 5 litters too much? (off topic posts from GD thread)


Quote:
Originally Posted by smudgley
ok.

Well I don't think letting these bitches have just 3 litters each would be a practical way to run the biggest dog breeding programme in the country {& incidently GDBA has the biggest breeding programme of working dogs in the WORLD}.

Anyway I take on board what you say & I can see where you are coming from, you are interested in the health & welfare of the animals. We know that.

I don't think they look haggered & have undercarriages sagging, {anyway I've had 2 kids & my undercarriage is still rather saggy never done me any harm!}

Anyway, we all love animals & want to see the best for them all, that we DO ALL AGREE ON.

Now lets put this one to bed.

Oh & I think I know you Dawn well enough also to be able to agree to differ on certain things too.

One more thing, puppy walkers aren't paid.
Their expenses are though, food, bills etc..?
Of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tilly
I for one resent the implication that any dog I hope to or will ever own is a usable commodity. and I am truly sorry I ever bother saying anything and I will make sure to keep quite next time.

I would also like to know why you feel the need to be so rude as it is offensive and ruins any enjoyment I might have from coming to catsey.

I am off to delete my original post as I bitterly regret starting it.

sally
Why? because people happen not to agree on something? Nobody has fallen out here, we differ on opinions that all.





Quote:
We are not short at all on bitches Random.
But 4 / 5 litters is what we consider a reasonable number.
Why how many litters do you think they should have. Don't forget they are being bred for a working home, not for the fun of it or for money as lots of litters are.
Quote:
IMO 2 or 3 litters maximum. Of course I am aware of what they are being bred for but just because they are cared for impeccibly, want for nothing and their pups have the best future imaginable, does not give anyone the right to use them as a breeding a machine. What is wrong with breeding a bitch when she is 2 and 4 and then using a daughter from her first litter who will then be 2 and old enough to breed from when her mum has retired?

If these bitches were not associated with GD a lot of people would see this as puppy farming. Having a litter takes a lot out of a bitch and imo 5 litters, especially with one every single year is a lot.
Exactly Random, if these dogs were in a "kennel" situation it would be seen as farming.



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19-01-2008, 10:43 PM   #27

Re: Is 5 litters too much? (off topic posts from GD thread)


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19-01-2008, 10:48 PM   #28

Re: Is 5 litters too much? (off topic posts from GD thread)


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19-01-2008, 11:14 PM   #29

Re: Is 5 litters too much? (off topic posts from GD thread)


Have deleted my posts as I really shouldn't be discussing this on here like this.

However you can see what I said as per quotes stated.



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19-01-2008, 11:22 PM   #30

Re: Is 5 litters too much? (off topic posts from GD thread)


Quote:
Originally Posted by EmmaG
My mum paid £600 each for her chocolate lab puppies (both boys),


I really must put my prices up



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