New mum... not doing so well

[Jac]

I'm so glad it's all worked out. You must be on top of the world at the moment.
Congratulations to both you and Mum.

[sarahd]

So glad to hear that mum and the kittens have done well and are thriving.

I am sorry but i still have to agree with Smudgley about giving Cimicat in the strength it says on the tin. I fed my newborn with full strength milk, every two hours and allowed him to feed as much as he could take and he is now two weeks old, doubled his birth weight and fine. We have never had any problems with him having the runs, choking or flooding his lungs. I also used a 10 mls syringe for the first day as i found it easier to control the drops and then used a royal canin feeding bottle which he is still on and I believe him sucking has made him stronger and got him where he is today. Obviously had he been very weak he would have continued to use the syringe until his strength built up.

Its probably a case of each to their own and all kittens will be different. However this method worked for me and has done for my breeding mentor for the last 35 years.

Looking forward to seeing the pictures of the new arrivals real soon

Sarah
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[smudgley]

Originally Posted by Kay

Glad to hear all is well with the little family.

It is always awkward when newborns don't feed but it is best not to jump in too quickly with hand rearing. If you hand rear them and they are full they will stop feeding off their mum thus causing the milk to never come. It is best to leave them for a while and then only give them a mix of glucose water with the tiniest colouring of milk substitute so it is like cloudy water (newborns cannot absorb the full strength milk and it lies on their stomach and goes sour eventually poisioning their system). Give them tiny amounts of this every 2 hours for at least 24 hours then slowly increase the strength of milk till they are being fed the appropiate strength. Hopefully by this time mum's milk will have come in and you won't need to continue. 1ml syringes are the best to use and your vet can usually supply them. They allow the tiniest drop through at a time and so lessen the chance of the kitten taking to much and possibly get it on their lungs and subsequently drown. Just give 1-2ml every 2 hours.

Glad you didn't need it with this litter but thought it may be helpful with any future litters.

Kay, why do you think they can't digest the milk?

What nutritional benefit do they get from coloured water?

If a pup / kitten is weak/ dehydrated, I think rehydration fluid is best initially to give them strength & then if a substitute milk is given, it should be given as directed. Why would they suggest the ratio they do if it isn't suitable?

Just curious to know your thoughts.

[Kay]

Smudgley:-
Kittens do not get full strength milk from their mum in the first 2-3 days they just get colostrum. The full strength milk then comes in slowly. This is my reasoning for the weaker milk slowly building up to full strength as per the manufacturer's instructions. Substitute milk is far to heavy for newborn and although they digest a little of it more often than not the majority of it lies in the stomach and curdles then poisoning the kitten. The best option overall is too feed bovine colostrum for the first 2-3 days and then introduce the milk.

Sarah:-
I am glad that your little kitten is surviving but the others didn't. I am sorry if that sounds harsh but I feel you ask others for advice only to ignore them. I am not the only one who has given you the same advice.
I am not saying that a kitten won't survive if fed your way but the figures you have come across this year prove that your way is the exception rather than the rule.
This is the last I am going to say on the subject of handrearing as my experience of it is obviously irrelevant.

[Fran]

Originally Posted by Kay

Smudgley:-
Kittens do not get full strength milk from their mum in the first 2-3 days they just get colostrum. The full strength milk then comes in slowly. This is my reasoning for the weaker milk slowly building up to full strength as per the manufacturer's instructions. Substitute milk is far to heavy for newborn and although they digest a little of it more often than not the majority of it lies in the stomach and curdles then poisoning the kitten. The best option overall is too feed bovine colostrum for the first 2-3 days and then introduce the milk.

Yes, this is exactly what I have been told by the breeders I bought my girls from. They have been breeding 15 years and 20 years respectively and never ever give newborns full strength milk.

[Kay]

Originally Posted by Fran

Yes, this is exactly what I have been told by the breeders I bought my girls from. They have been breeding 15 years and 20 years respectively and never ever give newborns full strength milk.

Thanks Fran.

[smudgley]

We'll agree to differ on this as I don't agree.

[sarahd]

Kay it wasnt a case of ignoring your advice it was a case of going with the advice of my breeding mentor who had seen how he was getting on and said he needed the full strength milk to keep him going, she too has been breeding for over 35 years, and not just her but a variety of people from TBRCC which agreed with her. He was also quite a good weight at birth weighing over 4 oz and would not have benefited from the weakened milk in such a small amount and glucose, that was words from my vet and the nurse which does the handrearing in the vets.

Thankfully he is doing well. I dont understand what you mean by the others did not. I havent lost any kittens out of these two litters and his litter mates are feeding from mum so not sure what you mean there. As for the figures i may have come across i feel are totally irrelevant as the other babies that were being hand reared were on a totally different solution and being fed by syringe. Plus they didnt really stand a chance as they were 5 days early. Apart from those kittens I have never hand reared a litter before as these are only my second lot of litters.

I dont want this to turn into a full scale row and i do appreciate being given advice but when you get different advice from different angles you have to go with which ever suits you best. Your experience is far from irrelevant on the hand rearing subject it was just down to me chosing to go with the advice of my breeding mentor and nothing more.

Anyway back to the subject title. How is the new mum and kits doing

Sarah
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