Veganism

[Ally-kats]

Originally Posted by Elvisisboss

in tesco and sainsburys........... its well cheap!

my entire family is vegan & veggie my dad only spends about £5 a week shopping!

Totally agree! We also have an allotment which saves us a fortune, I have never eaten so healthily until I became vegetarian about 15 years ago. My children actually went veggie first The cat is the only meat eater and I could never deny him that as he can't make an informed choice and anyway it is natural for him to want meat. I wonder how many people would eat meat if they had to kill the animal themselves. I never preach to anyone about eating meat it is a personal choice but I am not sure I would have made my children vegans, after all it wasn't my choice that they gave up meat but their own. Each to their own I say

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Ally-kats

Totally agree! We also have an allotment which saves us a fortune, I have never eaten so healthily until I became vegetarian about 15 years ago. My children actually went veggie first The cat is the only meat eater and I could never deny him that as he can't make an informed choice and anyway it is natural for him to want meat. I wonder how many people would eat meat if they had to kill the animal themselves. I never preach to anyone about eating meat it is a personal choice but I am not sure I would have made my children vegans, after all it wasn't my choice that they gave up meat but their own. Each to their own I say

Cats need meat anyway - they need the taurine from it.

[Ally-kats]

Originally Posted by rescuecatsrule

Cats need meat anyway - they need the taurine from it.

Quite true, I was thinking about the vegetarian food for cats but after a quick google found that the taurine is added, never looked into that before Well at least that's ok then if they must have it

[Brigoose]

I thought this was going to be a debate about vegans making cats vegans!

I have been vegan on and off for the past 5 years. There is alot of mis info about.
Any diet that is mainly full of breads and meats whether replica meats or not. Is not a healthy diet.
Many vegans live off vegan junk food, but also many meat eaters and vegetarians do.

Im actually a raw vegan now for health reasons. Meaning that I only eat uncooked unprocessed foods. Most people start this diet as a last resort for curing serious health problems and diseases, even cancer in some cases.
The only vitamins children can not get from a raw vegan diet is one of the K vitamins I think its K3 but not 100% this is easily resolved by given them an egg.
My iron/protein levels when I got them tested where actually high.
Like I said many people are misinformed by where they get there vitamins and minerals from.
Most of the time I see people sticking their children onto the diet the parent has always eaten without even researching food properly. People would rather take pills and potions from a doctor than take responsibility.
I dont have children but seem to know more about what they should be getting in regards to amounts and where from whilst alot of parents remain totally clueless.

[truthisouthere]

Originally Posted by Kim

Great thread Elaine and it is very difficult to answer. I do think it is perfectly acceptable to bring children up as vegetarians, but agree that it seems unfair in some ways to enforce veganism on them. As others have said it makes it difficult for Birthday parties, etc. However, I also understand why vegans are vegans as for example to produce enough milk for us to drink, cows are constantly pregnant, their calves are taken away from them and shot and cows don't live anywhere near their life expectancy due to being pregnant so often and overmilked. They also suffer with problems such as mastitis. As for egg production, I'm sure we all know the horrors of battery farms and that male chicks are killed as they are surplus to requirement, like male calves. Chicks are killed inhumanely and often put into a shredder alive. I only drink soya milk now & hope to have my own chickens soon.

I definitely don't agree that a vegan diet isn't natural, I know many vegans and they are usually very healthy! Of course you have to do yur research to make sure you get all the necessary vitamins & minerals, but by no means impossible. There are so many meat & dairy alternatives today that make it much easier.

A very interesting post. Kim, I agree with you, and others. You have your facts spot on. Any animal by product involves slaughter, stress and no matter the idelology we have been force fed to believe is in essence unnatural.

This species is the only species who after being weaned continue to take another animal's milk. How do we do this? We wait for an animal to drop it's young (artificially inseminated), shoot it's newborn causing enormous stress to it's mother (if it's male, female is raised to be treated like mum) then lie under it and drink it's milk...Now tell me that's natural or even fair...

Veganism can be a very healthy choice too if you are informed. My parents are both near vegan, and Dad's cholesterol and blood pressure have improved since he's been vegan (Dad is approaching 81 by the way and his cholesterol is 4 and blood pressure amazing). I'm almost there but do submit to the odd bar of milk choccie now and then even tho the alternatives are just as tasty. Again it's what's mass produced for us and readily available I think that makes people say it's an unfair option, because it's been drummed into our brains that in order to survice we must follow like sheep and consume the killing without independant thought or feeling for our companion animals, a hard habit to break but it can be done. You must want to do it to do it well.

[truthisouthere]

Originally Posted by alexgirl73

Where??? In my local shops it's that for 4!! and similar for sausages. Which I really begrudge when I can buy 20 Asda sausages for under £1! Also when you are just buying for one person it adds up, rather than the bulk buying you can do for a whole family.

Yes, but without meaning to offend that is not the price of 'quality' sausage. That is the cheap fillers mass produced end of the scale. You will not find vege sausages made that way in cheap bulk simply because there are no undesirable by-products (nostrils, ears, hooves etc) left over to go into them to mass produce them.

You can however buy really good quality vege sausages for £1.50 upwards from most supermarket chains. I get some yummy ones from the chiller for £0.99 in Holland & Barrett. When I first became vegetarian 25 years ago I shopped in the health food stores because I didn't know any different, for a while I thought 'this is too expensive!' which is what I think most people misconceive as having to do. But it really is a cheaper and healthier way of living, as long as you know what you're doing, you learn where to shop quite quickly, it's not rocket science.

[x-clo-x]

i dont think it is fair on a child to be brought up that way. after all it is not their believes.

my mum always said to us if we wanted to be vegetarian, then we could be when we were old enough to cook for ourselfs, (which by then we were old enough to form our own opinions based on facts and knowing about the real world) my mum said she wasnt going to cook two different meals at tea time, it was eat what you are given or dont eat at all.
my friends mum is a vegetarian, and has been since before she had children. yet she has brought up her children to eat meat and has cooked it for them, and then when they are old enough they make the decision themselves. which is the way i think it should be.

my sister tried it for a few months, soon went back to eating meat. i have no interest in being vegetarian or vegan the meat i eat is organic and ethically reared, and i think for me thats good enough.

[Velvet]

Originally Posted by truthisouthere

A very interesting post. Kim, I agree with you, and others. You have your facts spot on. Any animal by product involves slaughter, stress and no matter the idelology we have been force fed to believe is in essence unnatural.

This species is the only species who after being weaned continue to take another animal's milk. How do we do this? We wait for an animal to drop it's young (artificially inseminated), shoot it's newborn causing enormous stress to it's mother (if it's male, female is raised to be treated like mum) then lie under it and drink it's milk...Now tell me that's natural or even fair...

Veganism can be a very healthy choice too if you are informed. My parents are both near vegan, and Dad's cholesterol and blood pressure have improved since he's been vegan (Dad is approaching 81 by the way and his cholesterol is 4 and blood pressure amazing). I'm almost there but do submit to the odd bar of milk choccie now and then even tho the alternatives are just as tasty. Again it's what's mass produced for us and readily available I think that makes people say it's an unfair option, because it's been drummed into our brains that in order to survice we must follow like sheep and consume the killing without independant thought or feeling for our companion animals, a hard habit to break but it can be done. You must want to do it to do it well.

Interesting post. I have several veggie friends and was a veggie myself for 3 plus years. I have to say here I dont really like meat so it was no hardship to cut it out. My mum likes it so I cook it for her but thats as far as it goes. I have fallen off the trail somewhat and occasionally eat poultry and/or fish ;(

I dont think i could be a vegan though, that is very strict

[veganbee]

Sorry to dredge up an old post (but its been dredged up before by the looks of things!) but I'm vegan and wanted to conribute my two-penneth!

I was raised an omnivore but had a very liberal mum who always kept me informed of what I was eating (not like the kids you hear about now who don't understand where a beef burger comes from!) and as soon as I realised bacon came from pigs (I loved pigs!) I gave it up, all other meats soon followed until I was a true veggie at the age of 11 - mega kudos to my mum for supporting that decision. I really wanted to be vegan but my mum disallowed it until I was mature physically and wouldn't suffer any detriment. So I became vegan when I went to university at 18.

Having been vegan for 5 years now, I can strongly support the notion that vegans who do it 'properly' are possibly the healthiest people I know. I had an old flatmate who used to mock me, but then ate pasta, pesto and chicken breast 5/7 nights a week - great diet! Being vegan as opposed to just vegetarian made me more aware of everything I consume and so now I eat much healthier and have plenty more energy, better skin etc as a result.

As for children - I personally would not be able to feed my children meat as I really don't feel that healthwise it is the best choice (and don't all parents choose what they think is best for their children?), however I would not raise my children vegan. This is because being vegan makes you lactose intolerant, and I wouldn't want to enforce my beliefs on my children. I plan to raise them veggie but be open about meat and if they want to try it, allow it (similar to my mum's approach except the opposite) and minimise dairy products as I don't believe they're particularly healthy. That said, if my children reach an appropriate age for them to make an informed choice about their diet, I would fully support that decision, even if they wanted to become omnivores.

Phew! Didn't mean to make such a mega post!xx

[Kirsten]

Why is giving your child a vegan diet "enforcing veganism on them" but giving them meat isn't "enforcing dead animal flesh" on them?