Cat with 2 faces?

[Naomi]

Some of us think that the cat with 2 faces should be PTS, that dogs born deaf should be PTS, that animals which behave abnormally/quality of life is seriously compromised should be PTS, others think not. It's obvious that we all have differing opinions on when/why an animal should be PTS, it doesn't mean that the other person is wrong.

[borderdawn]

To be perfectly honest with you Patch, I have no interest in in deaf dogs at all, but I do have a lot of experience in training an assessing dogs for various work. You told us your deaf dog is people fear aggressive, that in itself is a liability, but being so "understanding" I doubt it will be an issue for you just some normal folk may have problems.

We are discussing a Cat with 2 faces, I dont really have an interest in your opinion when clearly everybody that disagrees with it is wrong! If it were mine it would of been PTS, just like a puppy, if I had bred a deaf one it would be PTS, there are far too many in rescue now, without adding to it.
Dawn.

[Patch]

Originally Posted by borderdawn

You told us your deaf dog is people fear aggressive,

He is a human fear aggressive who happens to be deaf. There are countless fear aggressive dogs, some are not deaf believe it or not. The cause for the fear aggression is always the same though - humans.

that in itself is a liability,

No it isnt. Good management is all thats required. Before I got him he bit some people. Since I have had him, for nine years, he has bitten no one. Muzzles and good management on his behalf work wonders for bite prevention.

but being so "understanding" I doubt it will be an issue for you

You seem so scornful of anyone like me who actually gives a damn. That is very sad indeed.

just some normal folk may have problems.

Being understanding means I am not `normal` ?
If thats the case, then I`m very glad not to be `normal` !

We are discussing a Cat with 2 faces, I dont really have an interest in your opinion when clearly everybody that disagrees with it is wrong!

Have I given an opinion about that particular cat ?
I dont know the cat personally.
I have not seen the cat in its various environments.
I have not looked at the link because I dont want to jump to conclusions about it.
I am not in a position to judge whether or not that cat is distressed or suffering, therefore I have no right to give an opinion on that specific cat because it can not possibly be an informed one.

You have no idea what I am like as a person and how I do or do not feel about differing opinions, so `clearly` as you put it, is simply not the case.

If it were mine it would of been PTS, just like a puppy, if I had bred a deaf one it would be PTS,

Regardless of how much the imperfect animal may have a wonderful life without problems just because you have no understanding of them ?

there are far too many in rescue now, without adding to it.
Dawn.

Thats down to overbreeding, greed, carelessness, and various other human failings.

No one who is inexperienced in animals with `imperfections` should have ANY say in whether or not those animals should live or die.

I do not like being so blunt, however, you have chosen to be caustic and downright rude to me. If you dont want my opinions, please do not read anything I post.

Hardly a warm welcome to this forum !

[Az]

This topic was always going to be an emotive one.

At the end of the day we all have different opinions on what is right and what the right thing to do is, but we shouldn't get cross, or get offended by others if their opinions differ - each to their own and no-one has a right to get stroppy if others don't subscribe to the same school of thought as them.

Clearly the woman that this thread is about felt she could give the cat a good life regardless of it's disability/difference. I don't think her taking it shopping is an issue - you can pretty much train an animal to be comfortable in all manner of situations if done correctly (and I doubt the cat would still be with her if it didn't feel comfortable - have you ever tried to restrain a cat that wants out?! ). Cindy Crawford takes her Bengal out for walks in Hype Park on a Lead - it's completely happy in that situation from what I've seen. (Personally I would prefer to take cats out on a lead if you live in the city then risk it getting run over by allowing it to go out - but thats just my opinion.)

Going back to the kitten being pts or not, well that's down to the individual and personal choice. Personally I can see both sides of the argument but in my view on this particular cat based on what I've seen in the film, so long as the cat is happy and not showing signs of distress that is the main thing... and going by the lick the woman gets at the end of that film I can't help but think he's glad to be alive.

[borderdawn]

Yes it is a matter of opinion Az. Re restraing a Cat. If an animal has brain damage, particularly due to trauma, they often do go a bit "soft" if you like. my neighbours had a feisty Cat, that got hit by a Cat, it had brain swelling but recovered, his temperament changed considerably, he became placid, docile and largely unaware of the world, lived in his own little world, easy to handle but clearly mentally impaired to some extent.
Dawn.

[Az]

Yes I appreciate that Dawn, but should you really try to second guess the mental state of the cat in this thread? (I can only assume you are as you posted the above to make a point). You cannot say the cat is brain damaged as you have no proof, and in all honestly there's no indication in the film to suggest so either. Thinking it is brain damaged loses you credence in your argument as it will transpire that your opinion is based on guess work rather than anything concrete.

I know it's very easy on the web to try and 'fill in the gaps' but we should always try to go on what we actually see/know - or if we are going to suggest further possibilities then we need to keep it in context... don't get vehemently behind a notion if it based on speculation for example - I know I wouldn't.

You may well have a valid point, and it really could be a possibility - but without more to go on it's all ifs and buts. Hope my post doesn't offend you! Just trying to highlight how easy it is to fall into this kind of thing on the web *hug*

[borderdawn]

Originally Posted by Az

Yes I appreciate that Dawn, but should you really try to second guess the mental state of the cat in this thread? (I can only assume you are as you posted the above to make a point). You cannot say the cat is brain damaged as you have no proof, and in all honestly there's no indication in the film to suggest so either. Thinking it is brain damaged loses you credence in your argument as it will transpire that your opinion is based on guess work rather than anything concrete.

I know it's very easy on the web to try and 'fill in the gaps' but we should always try to go on what we actually see/know - or if we are going to suggest further possibilities then we need to keep it in context... don't get vehemently behind a notion if it based on speculation for example - I know I wouldn't.

You may well have a valid point, and it really could be a possibility - but without more to go on it's all ifs and buts. Hope my post doesn't offend you! Just trying to highlight how easy it is to fall into this kind of thing on the web *hug*

Take more than that to offend me Az, you know I say what I mean!

Listening to the owner saying the cat walks in circles, and i will say again tolerates being walked through a shopping centre, to me does not equate to "normal" feline behaviour. I am sure there was nother article on this Cat some time ago which told of more "issues" but I cant for the life of me find it! It mentioned a lot of problems with ops the Cat needed to eat etc.. aswell.

I cant be accused of not liking "disabled" animals, I have had my fair share, my Dobermann that I rescued was a "wobbler" walked like he had drunk a bottle of whiskey so what, he was a star! (called Rocky too!!) I also mentioned I had 2 blind dogs, I also had a deaf Cat, a white one born that way and was from the CPL before I was born!! He was in there because of an RTA and was hit twice more, but still lived over 15yrs!!

We all have different viewpoints I agree but personally I see a Cat living in misery and there only for its owners gain.
Dawn.

[Az]

Glad you didnt take offence - I think your a big pussy cat really All soft on the inside even if you do sometimes have a harsh exterior

I think this is the bit that people are locking horns with you with:

...but personally I see a Cat living in misery and there only for its owners gain.

I don't think people agree with that. Tbh it doesn't look like it's living in misery to me either, and regarding it walking round the room to get it's bearing, is that just because the eyes are wide apart (like a horses), and perhaps could even further be likened to a blind person feeling a room to get their own bearings. I guess some people think it's not exactly misery, a bit of a pain yes, but not a miserable existance because of it.

Personally, I also, don't think the woman is getting anything out of it - to me she looks like shes telling the world she loves her cat even if it is a bit different... just like a person would with their disabled child. I know many of us get attached to our pets like their our own so can appreciate that fully.

Maybe if I had more information about them I'd see things differently but I'm only going on what I saw in that vid

[borderdawn]

Originally Posted by Az

Glad you didnt take offence - I think your a big pussy cat really All soft on the inside even if you do sometimes have a harsh exterior

I think this is the bit that people are locking horns with you with:



I don't think people agree with that. Tbh it doesn't look like it's living in misery to me either, and regarding it walking round the room to get it's bearing, is that just because the eyes are wide apart (like a horses), and perhaps could even further be likened to a blind person feeling a room to get their own bearings. I guess some people think it's not exactly misery, a bit of a pain yes, but not a miserable existance because of it.

Personally, I also, don't think the woman is getting anything out of it - to me she looks like shes telling the world she loves her cat even if it is a bit different... just like a person would with their disabled child. I know many of us get attached to our pets like their our own so can appreciate that fully.

Maybe if I had more information about them I'd see things differently but I'm only going on what I saw in that vid

Yeah I agree with that to an extent, but Horses dont go circling in rooms, so why should this Cat, and moreso when it knows where it is? If it "sees like a Horse" as she says, it should have much better vision than any Cat or us and will be able to see almost completely 360 degrees, thats one thing that leads me to believe it has some brain damage.

Animals with brain damage, like people behave very differently, classically with animals, they become placid and docile, thats what I see.
Dawn.

[Az]

Without further information/fact I wouldn't really speculate - but do appreciate where you are coming from (and hope you can see how I saw how happy the cat was towards the end of the film licking it's owners face ). I guess we'll never really know the truth about that cat - but least the topic has led us to explore our own boundaries if we'd ever be faced with something similar.