People against accidental litters/casual breeding

[Az]

Hi All

I was just wondering if those of you who are against casual breeding/accidental litters would like to get together and adapt this article to reflect on the cat world, to put on Catsey.

Thinking About Breeding? Think about this...

It's our most read article on Dogsey, and was written by SB (who sadly is no longer with us ).

I think much of the article is relative to cats, but obviously the statistics would need changing and the article tuned more towards cats - but it makes a great starting point, and I'm sure SB wouldn't have minded us using it.

Why?

Because articles like that, can be used to help make people aware of the plight of all those animals in rescue. And why willy nilly breeding is not acceptable to any true animal lover. Hopefully it will make people think twice, and even if it helps to prevent one single casual litter - it will have done it's job.

It can also then be posted in threads where nescessery - and as all the points are clearly laid out, it helps prevent people getting frustrated and angry.

At the end of the day it's about ramming the message home in an acceptable manner, and articles like this (and linking to them in threads) is the best way to do that.

So... who's up for it?

So what's Catsey's take on it?

As a cat lovers website, we have to look at the whole picture and see what is responsible and what's not. Obviously we are against back yard breeding and kitten farming. Although we have no problem with ethical, responsible breeding.

Where does accidental matings fall? Well I guess that depends on the personal circumstances and whether the owner has actually been responsible or not. We all make mistakes, and some are more genuine than others. At the end of the day, all we can do is write articles and put our views across in an amicable manner in the hope that others will take on the same ideals.

When it come's to people's personal threads, then there's no need to go OTT and there's no need to not have a say either - so long as it is done in an adult, non aggressive, non condescending tone. Sometimes it suffice to say just how dissappointed you are and link to the article that explains why you feel the way you do.

Obviously I'm talking about genuine mistakes, and not someone pulling the 'accident card' each time their cat gets pregnant!

[Elaine]

I have made many such posts and links to the plight of cats as i am sure others have also.
Nothing changes here because people dont have the balls to say what they really feel. Instead they hide behind pm's but on the actual threads they aww and ahh over the poor kittens.
It has become common knowledge amongst other cat forums that Catsey tolerates and actively promotes irresponsible breeding by such behaviour.
Unless attitudes change the forum will remain the same.
For each kitten born and rehomed, it's a potential home taken away from a rescue cat in desperate need.
I may well waste my time trying to write something on the subject matter but really what is the point as it wont open the eyes of the people here that "want" kittens.

[yola]

Elaine - I hear what you're saying, but even if we collectively can do something however small to change people's attitudes then we must at least TRY!! I think Az is making a good start here to formalise Catsey's 'official' stance on spay/neuter and irresponsible breeding and it's up to us to help.

I just don't have time at the moment to research all the statistics but would happily work with you to compile a compelling and persuasive article . . . what do you think?

[charliebubs]

Good idea Az.

Elaine - I do think that it's worth doing the article. As Az has said.........if it changes just one person's mind then it has worked.

From a personal point of view, I do believe that it's possible to work both for rehomes/rescues and also to promte and beter a particular cat breed. I worked for years at Wood Green Animal Shelter and now help out and donate to a couple of more local rescues, and I am a GCCF registered breeding intending to breed ragdolls.

I know that not everyone agrees with breeding in the formal way (as opposed to back yard) either - but we are all entitled to our own thoughts and opinions.

This forum brought us together as a community of cat lovers regardless of old or young, moggie or pedigree, cat or kitten.

I think the article is a fab idea. I definitely don't agree with backyard breeding but I also believe (and know from experience) that genuine accidents can happen.

I hope we can all come together and do this.

[LucySiamese]

A friend of a friend who i dont like has 6 moggies and 2 bengals which all go outside, and she has let one of her girls get with the local tom because she likes the look of him! well the cat has just had its second litter of 7! she kept a girl from the 1st litter who will probably breed soon, she is selling them for £50 none of her cats are vaccinated and she recently went with my friends neighbour who wanted a ragdoll/cross kitten and they turned out to have cat flu! now she has gone back home to her own cats (un-vaccinated) i dont know how she would afford it if they were to get sick! i think its totally irresponsible! there are enough moggies in rescues, as people would rather take a cute kitten home until the novelty wears off!
Ive told my friend the rspca offer to spey your cat if you hand the litter over so there is no excuse! Im not to keen on the rspca but i do think this is a good idea, at least they find good homes for the kittens and stop there being anymore (accidental litters!)

[charliebubs]

Originally Posted by LucySiamese

A friend of a friend who i dont like has 6 moggies and 2 bengals which all go outside, and she has let one of her girls get with the local tom because she likes the look of him! well the cat has just had its second litter of 7! she kept a girl from the 1st litter who will probably breed soon, she is selling them for £50 none of her cats are vaccinated and she recently went with my friends neighbour who wanted a ragdoll/cross kitten and they turned out to have cat flu! now she has gone back home to her own cats (un-vaccinated) i dont know how she would afford it if they were to get sick! i think its totally irresponsible! there are enough moggies in rescues, as people would rather take a cute kitten home until the novelty wears off!
Ive told my friend the rspca offer to spey your cat if you hand the litter over so there is no excuse! Im not to keen on the rspca but i do think this is a good idea, at least they find good homes for the kittens and stop there being anymore (accidental litters!)

Gosh, that's terrible. Unfortunately it's people like her who tend to give us all a bad name.

I do not agree at all with what she is doing. When my Lily (ragdoll) got accidently mated by a Tom who broke into my safe catproofed garden I was in hell for 12 weeks waiting for her FIV/FeLV tests to come back. Not a great feeling and a HUGE worry. Why would people want that?!?!

[borderdawn]

Thanks for this opportunity Azz, I will make my feelings felt again, and I can tell you I speak for a LOT who wont!

Catsey is a small Cat forum and to begin with I loved it, just like dogsey, I really did, then, slowly I began to question a lot that went on, often ending up in locked threads.

Think about this, Dogsey is a MASSIVE site, a site I adore, yes I have my scraps, but the site I love and am very proud to be part of, catsey SHOULD be the same, but it isnt. It has a very small number of "regular" visitors, mainly those from the beginning, their loyalty is commendable, and I have come to like very much many of them, truly I have, their Cats also.

I can tell you honestly, the main reason people do not stick around on here, is because its seen as a site that actively condones the irresponsible breeding of moggy Cats. I am sick to death of reading "oh its done now, lets carry on" its a disgrace, and any site seen to promote such disgraceful and irresponsible animal welfare is not going to be visited by people who genuinely care for Cats and their wellbeing. I am disgusted with the attitude of people on here who are giving the impression that this sort of activity is "ok" then those hypocrites turn round and say to people like Smudgley "oh poor kittens" well that is another thing that has incenced people on other forums too, the work people like her put in, then people like those who allow their moggy Cats to be mated, act as if they genuinely care about the work she does, when they are doing nothing but contribute to that very problem.

I visit other Cats forums too, every day there are 4/5 or more new pages, new members etc.. just like Dogsey, but Ill tell you now, this site in its current state will never get there, and covering it up in a "breeders" section is a disgrace too, it serves only to show people its ok but "dont tell anyone else" I do not know of any other forum where a breeding section is excluded from other members, the cover up stinks, and as I said is seen again as Catsey actively promoting the breeding, for the most part iressponsible, of Cats. No other site I have seen frowns on RESPONSIBLE breeding, like Dogsey, responsible dog breeding is fine, why shouldnt it be.


There are commercial breeders of dogs and cats on here, and thats their choice, but these are the ones that should be promoting a responsible attitude to newcomes and experienced pet owners, but instead they say its ok to purposely allow your Cat to be mated, then give pathetic remarks like "whats done is done" do you know what that really sounds like to people who REALLY care about Cats welfare?

I think in the last couple of months there has been at least 5 or 6 unplanned (although I DOUBT thst VERY much ANY of them were unplanned) litters, all say it was an "accident" its bull**it! It was very much planned, its not rocket science to keep your cat in, its your responsibility as a decent owner to make sure your pets are safe and their welfare should be at the top of your list. If this was on Dogsey, you would be ripped to shreds for making worse a rescue situation for breeding crossbreeds without any care or consideration, wouldnt you? and I expect you'd all be there shoulding the odds, at no health checks etc. Why are cats so different? Why do you abuse these creatures in such a way that their feelings and wellbeing doesnt matter? Im finding it really hard to understand, from somebody who controls pest species, the number of feral colonies is booming, and its NOT helped by people breeding iressponsibly, its stands a fair chance (like we have seen on here) that the Cats your "pet" is mating with, carries a deadly disease, why dont you people care? and why do others say its ok? I cant get my head round it.

Luke may be young, but he's old enough to walk/train a puppy, and having been told on here more than once about Bella being allowed to roam, he DID know the consequences of his actions, Im simply not interested in any excuses for ANY of the "accidental" litters on here, they were ALL avoidable. You more "experienced" breeders have set no example to youngsters have you?

An article "may" help, I dont think it will hurt, but I seriously doubt, given the attitude of some of the people on here, it will do any good, I really dont, which is a shame, but yes if it did stop one litter it would be a help.

So thats my thoughts, given the amount of emails I have recieved, you can expect Catsey's posts to drop even more, several steadfast members and dedicated Cat welfare people do not want association with it any longer, I understand that, like I said, and you all know, I am outspoken, I always tell it how I see it, but for this once, I just stopped looking untill I was emailed about recent events, you should be ashamed of yourselves, breeding on this scale with no care or consideration is a disgrace, you should be ashamed of yourselves. Im sorry if that offends, but its the truth.
Dawn.

[Emm]

First of all I think the article is an excellant idea!

Originally Posted by Elaine

I have made many such posts and links to the plight of cats as i am sure others have also.
Nothing changes here because people dont have the balls to say what they really feel. Instead they hide behind pm's but on the actual threads they aww and ahh over the poor kittens.
It has become common knowledge amongst other cat forums that Catsey tolerates and actively promotes irresponsible breeding by such behaviour.
Unless attitudes change the forum will remain the same.
For each kitten born and rehomed, it's a potential home taken away from a rescue cat in desperate need.
I may well waste my time trying to write something on the subject matter but really what is the point as it wont open the eyes of the people here that "want" kittens.

The fact that people are pm ing other people and talking about them - I find quite upsetting.
I have never thought that Catsey is about promoting irresponsible breeding. Yes accidents will happen but hopefully if we can work together on this article it may educate people who find these forums looking for advice. And that has to be a positive thing.

I've already made myself clear before on what my stance is - I would like to see compulsory neutering and the registration of all breeders - to protect the genuine breeders out there.

However we do have a great problem in this country and I have to say rescues themselves instead of judging so harshly maybe should look at themselves as well. My experiance has been a very negative one of people involved in cat rescues. I know there good people out there doing good work but this is my experiance from them. I have found them to be very unapproachable and very unwilling to help or even offer advice. When a cat is in need of help I have people coming to my door looking for help because they can't get any help from cat charities. I would love to volunteer myself to help - but they don't want my help - they would rather just sit back and judge other people.

It takes a long time to change attitudes - but every-one has to work together and keep a positive outlook on the subject and talk openly about it. Bashing other people for making mistakes and making them feel like a worthless piece of cr*p isn't the answer - and isn't going to get people to listen to your point of view.

[LucySiamese]

Originally Posted by charliebubs

Gosh, that's terrible. Unfortunately it's people like her who tend to give us all a bad name.

I do not agree at all with what she is doing. When my Lily (ragdoll) got accidently mated by a Tom who broke into my safe catproofed garden I was in hell for 12 weeks waiting for her FIV/FeLV tests to come back. Not a great feeling and a HUGE worry. Why would people want that?!?!

I dont know why people would want to risk theire cats health! they say they love theire cats and let them go with any tom, ive openly told my friend i disagree with what her mate is doing.

[babycakes]

Originally Posted by Emm

First of all I think the article is an excellant idea!


It takes a long time to change attitudes - but every-one has to work together and keep a positive outlook on the subject and talk openly about it. Bashing other people for making mistakes and making them feel like a worthless piece of cr*p isn't the answer - and isn't going to get people to listen to your point of view.

I have to agree Emm. Yes I do feel that Catsey members should have their say and I think quite rightly too as it is a problematic problem with the irresponsible / overbreeding of moggies. However as Luke chose to inform people of the issue I feel he was looking for some guidance following the incident. Also I feel he was informing us that he has responsibly found homes for the unborns.

How does this differ from breeding pedigree cats? Is it because owners make money from them? Do they breed to order? What if there is one that doesn't sell? What if after that breed non of them sell? We also have sites for unwanted pedigree kittens too. Just because you are breeding a pedigree it doesn't suddenly make it ok, but it does on catsey.
Also what would happen to those who couldn't afford to own a pedigree but love cats? What about my cat? He's a moggy and I love him to bits. Who makes the decision of what moggies breed? who decides this? Or do we just ensure in the long run that moggies die out?
I don't know the answers to these I am just posing a few questions that have kept me up last night.