split thread , kitten prices

[luggage16]

ouch! out of curiosity why are they so expensive? Is it because they are still such a new breed. Think I am going to have to start playing the lottery .
What kind of life span do they have?
Ohh why do they have to be sooo expensive? What about rescues?Are there ever any needing a new home?
Think for now I might have to settle for a couple of moggies

Thanks for the info

Sam

[belladiablo]

It does sound expensive doesn't it, I do know how you feel from when I first began looking! The way I look at it though you are buying another family member. If you think how much you would spend on a tv or stereo system without really being surprised at the price. Yet even if the most inexpensive moggie were ill, and you had no insurance, you would spend any amount of money to save that little life!

I know most people assume that breeders are taking the mickey with prices, and it is so easy to see how many a breeder will have in one litter and times the two amounts! This is just not a realistic thing to do though, as the breeder will have costs that will not even occur to you! My own vet bills are horrendous, for even the most simple thing!

What you have to consider is, when we buy a girl, we are paying just to begin with the prices above ourselves, maybe with the included cost of importing. If we don't have our own stud boy (prices above), we would then have to find a breeder willing to stud, then test, and maybe deflea and worm 24 hrs before a visit.
and then you have the stud fee to pay, which will cost anywhere
between
£350 - £800. Most breeders would offer another free mating should the
first one not take, but the tests will have to be repeated. No
breeder
that I know though, would continually offer to take the female if she
does not fall pregnant, and it could cost an awful lot of money to
find her sterile!
This is before you even consider the cost of raising, vaccinating, and registering the kittens with the appropriate body!
This is with all going well, and no problems, such as a c section if the
queen cannot deliver!!

A pregnant queen herself, can eat far more, and nothing like when they are feeding kittens, maybe four times the normal amount of food, and the extra litter to cover the amount of food (it all has to go somewhere!).

As an example, I only have a couple of small litters here at the mo, and yesterday brought 3 packs of whiskas kitten supermeat, I had to get some more earlier!
Since May, I have used over 60 bags of cat litter @ 30 litres a bag, which costs around £8 each!
One of the main differences in price is the rarity, and the extra money put into getting a certain breed or colour! You would be shocked at the amount of money it can be to import a cat into the UK, but this needs to be done to keep a good gene pool, and not 'inbreed' as much as can be helped!

From a breeders point of view though, I think this lovely poem says it all;


I love my little kitty, she makes my house a home.
She always is my best friend, I never feel alone.
She makes me smile, she makes me laugh,
She fills my heart with love ...
Did some breeder breed her, or did she fall down from above?
I've never been a breeder, seen life through their eyes,
I hold my little kitty and just sit and criticise.
I've never known their anguish, I've never felt their pain,
The caring of their charges, through snow or wind and rain.
I've never sat the whole night, waiting for babies to be born,
The stress and trepidation when they're still not here by dawn.
I've never felt the heartache, of a little life in my hands,
This darling little baby, who weighs but 60 grams.
Should you do that instead of this ....or this instead of that,
Alone you fight, and hope one day, he'll grow to be a cat,
and bring joy to another being, and make a house a home,
You know it's all just up to you, you'll fight this fight alone.
Formula, bottles, heating pads, you've got to get this right,
Two hourly feeds for this tiny guy, throughout the day and night.
In your heart you know, you're almost sure to lose the fight,
to save this little baby, but God willing ... you just MIGHT.
Day one he's in there fighting, you say a silent prayer,
Day two & three, he's doing well, with lots of love and care.
Day four & five . he's still alive, your hopes soar to the heavens,
Day six he slips away again, dies in your hands day seven.
You take this little angel, and bury him alone,
With aching heart and burning tears, and an exhausted groan,
You ask youself "Why do I do this? ... why suffer all this pain?"
But when you see the joy your kittens bring... it really self explains.
So, when you think of breeders and label them with "greed",
Think about what they endure to fill another's need.
When you buy a kitten and with your precious pounds part,
You only pay with money ... we pay with our heart

©Heather Field 2003

[luggage16]

aww thats lovely
believe me if i had the money i would pay it without question! Problem is me and my partner have just bought a house, are saving for a wedding and hoping to have a baby in the next couple of years and so are trying to be careful with the pennys! Maybe one day.....
till then i will have to find a couple of moggies to spoil

[Mags]

What an excellent view of things from the breeder's eyes Sue, I found it extremely interesting and informative....thanks!

We have a regular member here called Sam who breeds Persians and I could see her in that poem. She has told us of the heartbreak of nursing and feeding her babies 24 hours a day and the despair she feels when one of the little ones doesn't make it. It makes one feel emotional just reading it....

[belladiablo]

Thanks Mags

Just hope I didn't 'get on my high horse' too much. It is the hardest job I have ever done, and like anyone else, expect to get 'paid' for the work I do. Sometimes I long though for my old job, regular pay packet, flexi time ha ha ha!!! I am sure Sam would be able to tell everyone more, as from the posts I have read with great interest of hers, she has been doing this way longer than I have. Have also started mine on the meat diet she has reccomended, and never thought the vegetable idea would work, they all went for it big time! Now just have to wait and see if it is too much for the Bengal, as they are known for their sensitive tummies! I am still learning though, and am sure I will be learning all the time!

I did read somewhere though, that the average litter, of an average breed, (this is about £50 less for a kitten roughly), will earn a breeder £60 per month. I am sure that most of the people earning a living out there, would not even get out of bed in the morning for that, considering the hours a breeder sometimes has to do!

Thanks ever so much though luggage 16, it is not often that kitten prices are discussed openly and honestly, and I think, on behalf of most breeders, that it should be! We are all hard working and honest, and yes, for the rarer breeds, in my honest opinion, the price should be higher! Don't forget, that according to most cat club rules, (like the GCCF, FIFE etc), pedigree cats should not be sold until the age of 13 weeks minimum, with vaccinations, whereas, most dog breeds, can be sold at eight weeks, without vaccs! Yet people are never surprised at the cost of a pedigree dog! I must say though, before receiving a barrage of abuse, ha ha ha! That many dog breeders now seem to be adopting the idea of doing the vaccs first, and also there now seems to be an active and non active self regulating idea amongst some of the dog breeders.

I do hope that this helps to dispel the myth, that all cat breeders are rich, , and care more about money than their cats! When I first started breeding, I was quite frankly quite scared of asking for money for my babies, time, and being so hard up from breeding has cured me of that, and also feel that if I don't value my babies properly who will?

I also hope that I have not offended anyone with this post, I just wanted to show people that money usually is not even in most breeders minds with a poorly kitten, just please get well!

I will also a bit later, try and show some piccies of my past kitten customers, and I think the joy on their faces with their new 'baby' are also worth a thousand words!!

Suexx

[Fran]

I disagree with the cost thing - pedigree cats are grossly over priced. In my experience raising puppies involves much more cost and effort than raising kittens. There is absolutely no money in dog breeding if you do it correctly. and I would never sell any of my puppies regardless of colour or quality for any more or less than an other. They all cost the same to raise regardless, come from the same parents who have had the health checks done, whether the puppy is of crufts standard or a couch potato..... paying in excess of a thousand pounds for a kitten is absurd. You are not telling me that at £800 + per kitten you don't make money????? And in my opinion breeding is all about bettering the breed not making money!! C section in cats is quite rare. I know of 2 vets that have gone through to retirement without ever having to perform a C section on a cat....My last litter of puppies had to be born by C section - that was the price of one pup straight away and I had no guarentee that I would have had any surviving pups....The stud fee took the price of my second pup, cost of feeding mum and babies - the third, health tests for mum the fourth, KC registration, 5 generation pedigrees and puppy packs the fifth and so it goes on. I raised my last litter of pups at a substantial loss but for me it is not about the money it is about producing healthy, happy and well adjusted dogs that are as near to the breed standard as possible..

[belladiablo]

Hey PK.
Please don't think I was getting at dog breeders, as I was not! I would imagine that it costs around the same to raise a litter! Cats on the right food are not cheap, and they can eat loads! Also with dogs, you don't have the litter to think of, tiny syringes and nipples if you have to foster! I am honestly not saying that dogs vs cats are any harder or easier. Just that most people expect cats for free! Or for a very low price! This was just the way it has been for years. Yes, breeding or show cats are more expensive, but I have yet to sell a stud or queen, and mostly sell to pet kitten customers, so no, I have not made a fortune, and very likely won't! If you think £800 is high for a kitten, then you will have to think of the people who sold their kittens for at least £1950, for a pet sbt. Yes, they made money, had a very nice house, and lot's of land on which they kept rescue animals, wallabies, rhea's etc! They had no life though, so what is best?

I had hoped not to offend anyone with this post, but it seems I have, so I apologise for that, but not for my kitten prices. This I work hard for, and if I charged any less, would be out of step, and undermining other breeders, which is not fair and right!
Suexx

[Fran]

I have bred both cats and dogs and I can honestly say dogs are a lot more hard work and expense!!! Fair enough dogs don't require litter but I have to worm my bitches from day 40 in whelp up until 2 days post whelp and the size of them imagine that cost! Maddie was mated recently she has had 2 courses of antibiotics already at a cost of £26 each course plus the consultation fees...add to that the stud fee plus she has to have her eyes tested yearly for inherited eye conditions. Fair enough hips/elbows are a one off score. It absolutely doesn't cost the same to raise a litter of puppies and a litter of kittens and any reputable breeder of dogs will only breed their dog once a year. The cost of keeping a large breed dog inbetween litters is immense. This doesn't apply to me as my girls are pet first and foremost and it wouldn't matter to me if they never had any more pups. I do think £800 is high my pups go for nearly half of that cost!! and like I said previously how can you charge more money for some kittens out of the same litter???? no matter what the sex, colour or quality they have cost the same to raise - have they not??

[belladiablo]

Hi PK,

I do see what you mean with breeding from dogs, and larger dogs needing more food. Your prices for your puppies though, are your own, and I am sure in line with what other breeders probably charge for that particular breed.

I do understand your point, in that one stunning kitten in a litter would cost the same to raise, but not the same to produce. To produce these kittens takes time, effort and knowing who would produce what for a particular mating! I am sure, that when considering who you choose to stud your bitch to, you would expect to pay more to mate her to a grand champion, in the hope that this would produce good quality puppies, in the hope, that they would be a good standard for the breed. I myself, do not charge any extra for what I consider 'show quality'. I had to make the point though for the breeders that do, and would not undermine their work! This would not be a fair thing to do! As for breeding 'stock', I have been more than happy to swap with good breeding friends. This actually brings me in no money! Again though, I had to make the point for all breeders, not just myself!

I am quite certain though, that the breeders who breed the same breed of dog as yourself, who struggle taking them to shows, to perhaps achieve the dream of Crufts for example, would not appreciate the fact that you seem to think, that a 'show quality' puppy, should sell for any less than it is worth. I know that many dog breeders put in the time, effort and money to prove their dogs to be the perfect standard, and would charge more money for the puppies born from these. The same goes for horses, cows, even pigs as they all have their 'standards'. I would not begin to belittle any of these people for the work they have put in to their breeding!

To be honest PK, if you have the money to support your breeding programme, and never expect to make one penny, but to always support a loss, then fine, I have no problem with at all. That is your choice in a free society, and your fundamental right!

Be aware though, that many other breeders put time and effort, into buying the right breed standard for their programme, or paying for the top stud. The prices that I wrote earlier, are true and correct, I would like to point out that I don't charge a different price between show and pet, but would for breeding. The prices I put were from a range of breeders, not just myself, and I was trying to give a general impression for all Bengal breeders, not just myself! Once again, from my point of view, what I charge a customer is between myself and them, and no one else!

I hope this will clear any misunderstanding of this particular post!

Suexx

[Fran]

Actually in my breed no more is charged to use a cruft's champion sire than any other. One of my girls sire is an international champion. In the dog world it cost no more to produce a champion pup than it does a pet pup. You have to have money to support a breeding programme as good breeders do not make any money. Visit [admin edit:link removed] and see for yourself the opinions on making money in dog breeding..... Pupppies in my breed by any breeder are sold for the same price whether show stock or not!!! so I would get your facts right before you post