Dog Owners....

[Donna]

Originally Posted by Canis-Equus

We dont know if the dog jumped the fence INTENDING to attack. He may have jumped the fence to join in the fun of the kids playing, or the noise of the kids playing may have been scary to him and he jumped over to ward off what he percieved was a threat.



Em

The dog jumped the fence growling and baring its teeth. "Snarling" is a word the oldest boy has used to describe the dog. I dont think this was the dog saying "pass the ball and let me play".

[Donna]

Originally Posted by Canis-Equus

The dog at this stage may well still have been 'playing' but as the kids scream more and adults start screaming and hitting and kicking and throwing thigns etc etc, the dog will then get aggressive if he wasnt already so.
Em

There were no adults in the garden at the time, and nobody was hitting/kicking/throwing things. They were too busy running. The dog was agressive before it jumped the fence.

[Donna]

Originally Posted by Canis-Equus

If i was the owner of these children, i would teach them proactively (by going and FINDING nice dogs( taht dogs are NOT all scary adn that if a dog runs at you, the safe thing to do (stand still and shuttup) to prevent any dog being wound up. Its fine saying and its true, that dogs should be kept safe and prevented from biting children, but thats no use when a dog is running at a child and the child antagonises it further by squealing and running around, blaming the dog or the dogs owner afterwards is not going to help.Em

I dont own my children.

I will not teach my children to approach any dog, as I do not partliclarly like them and do not expect my children to, even more so after this attack.

I would never teach my children to stand still and shut up when a dog is snarling and growling and running at them. I would teach them to get to safety as quickly as possible. My children running from a vicious dog is not antagonising it. They are trying to get to safety.

My son wasnt "squealing nand running around". He ran to the safety of the house.

And I blame the dog and its owner 100%.

[Snoof]

I think the point Emma was trying to make was that dogs can perceive things as provocations that people wouldn't, so calling it unprovoked may work from a human point of view, but not from a dog's.

[Donna]

I am just so angry my child had to go through a dog attack, but is now seen as provoking it by running away. He did what any normal person would of done.

Some dogs cannot be trusted. And I am very wary of dogs as they are dangerous animals if not trained correctly. And even then so, you cannot trust them 100%.

[Canis-Equus]

Im sure you are and you have every right to be angry.

But, im afraid it is a fact that running away from a dog will 9 times out of 10 provoke taht dogs chase instinct.
Unless your child can run at around 25mph, that is BAD advice im afraid.

In this situation i suspect it would have made little difference, but in 'general' the better plan is to stand still, be quiet and if necessary, drop into a ball wiht hands and arms protecting face.

Quite honestly im afraid any dog, nice or nasty, doesnt care what YOU think is provocation, tehy arent humans they dont have social morals they dont think like you do. Running, screaming or squealing whether in excitment or fear will get most dogs instinctive urge to chase and nip going.

I dont see what the dog is to blame for... its the owners responsibilty too keep his dog safe and prevent it from hurting or frightenign anyone, AND to prevent anyone from hurting or frightening the dog.

Its up to you if you leave your child frightend of dogs or not. I wouldnt, but im not you.

Em

[Snoof]

Nobody's saying Sean or the other kids did anything wrong, Donna. But it's like with any animal - they don't interpret your behaviour as a human would.

[Donna]

My children will form their own opinions as to whether they like or dislike dogs. I will not force my feelings on them.

Can see what you mean that running might cause a dog to further attack, but it is human instinct. The dog should of been trained not to do what it did.

I am waiting to find out if this case is going to court and if it is then my son will be asked to give evidence. I wil not be able to speak for him in court, so it is down to the judge if the dog is destroyed.

I have told the police I want the dog destroyed. I will say this again till I am blue in the face - even though my child was not hurt in the attack.

It is not the dog's fault it has not been trained to not be vicious, but it is also it's hard luck. I hope the owner is punished and having the dog taken and destroyed as punishment to the owner might make her think twice before she allows another pet to become a potential killer.

Not having a go, but voicing an opinion.

[Naomi]

Unfortunately Donna, owners like the one you describe will just go out and get another dog and the same thing will happen all over again. It's all swings and roundabouts

[Canis-Equus]

It would be more productive, instead of insisting THIS dog is destroyed, to insist action is taken for the owners negligence. If THAT isnt done, there is nothing stopping them getting another dog and the same could happen again, NOT because all dogs are vicious unless trained to be otherwise, but because clearly this dog had issues that the owners were not interested in sorting out.

It is human instinct to run, as it is human instinct to flail and yell at wasps. Its not a safe or particularly useful instinct in these cases though, so i would BEG you to teach your children what IS safe, adn that not all dogs are vicious at all.

None of my dogs are 'vicious' but ill guarantee you every single one would chase and jump and nip in PLAY at a child running around. They do not do this as i prevent it when i am there but if there was a child present in my garden and my dog was in there, that is probabyl what would happen.

I have met children who are terribly scared of dogs for whatever reason, when walking my dogs in the local dog walking park. My dogs were off lead and before i had the chance to recall my dogs, these two children started to scream and run. And my dogs chased them because they thought it was a fantastic game. Fortunately i managed to get both children to stand still, but an accident could have occured there BECAUSE of the childrens actions, because they hadnt been taught how to deal with their fear.

I also had a friend who was scared of everything, and boy do i mean everything. Spiders - she would actually climb the walls... if she ever sees one in her car whilst driving i think in all honesty she will end up dead.
But thats not all, shes actually scared of EVERYTHING to the point where even the toaster popping up frightens the life out of her. Her life is incredibly difficult because of her fears and she is very angry these days that her parents did nothing to help her learn etiher not to be scared, or how to cope with her fears.

My parents did help me, when i got bitten by a dog. In my case it was my own fault, i didnt heed the warning to always ask a dog owner first, and i went to pat a dog left tied up outside a shop, and he bit my hand quite badly.
They made the effort to find nice dogs, and teach me more thoroughly how to behave around animals and as a result im not scared of dogs, and i own four.
I AM however, wary of unknown dogs and i do my best not to provoke any reaction, as a result the ONLY time i have been bitten as an adult was when i ignored my instints telling me to leave a dog i knew quite well alone, and instead i went and tried to force him to do something he didnt want to do (get up off the floor and come out for a walk - i was his dog walker)..... Consequently i did get bitten very badly, but again, this was my fault and i have learned to listen to my instincts in future.

Im not saying this was the childrens fault, it clearly wasnt, but their actions may well have made a bad situation a lot worse. These arent toddlers, they are perfectly old enough to learn whats safe adn do it.

Em