Dog Owners....

[yola]

I am terrified of dogs . . .always have been. I don't touch them, even small cute ones in the street for that reason. Looking back, even if my parents would have rationalised the argument for standing still, I doubt I would have done so as a child. I would have run like hell.

Having said that - on the 2 occasions I was cornered by a dog; once outside my own home by a neighbours b/w collie-type dog I ran like the wind into the house.

The second time I was on my own and crossing a park on my way home when my path was blocked by a beautiful but snarling and lip-curling lassie-dog. On that occasion I stood still, but only as I was in an open field. I must've been about 10, and I stood trembling and crying with my eyes shut for I-don't-know-how-long, until some kindly woman (not the dog's owner - who was nowhere around) came up to me and asked me if I was OK . . the dog had disappeared. Only then did I run all the way home.

Point is - a well-trained animal will NOT act in a hostile and threatening manner unless provoked. I do believe most children, even those not familiar with dogs can tell the difference between playful exuberance and hostility. I both my cases the dog was overtly threatening . . . I suspect from what Donna's written that this animal was likewise.

I still stand by the fact that licensing of dog ownership is needed together with compulsory behavioural training for owner and pet to avoid such occurances as much as possible.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by yola

Point is - a well-trained animal will NOT act in a hostile and threatening manner unless provoked. I do believe most children, even those not familiar with dogs can tell the difference between playful exuberance and hostility. I both my cases the dog was overtly threatening . . . I suspect from what Donna's written that this animal was likewise.

Ok i will probably get shot down, but here goes-the highlighted statement, IMO, isn't totally true. All to often i have heard of the beloved family dog biting for no reason, dogs that have lived with familys from 8 weeks to umpteen years..then one day they just bite..in many cases for no apparent reason.
My aunts Old english sheepdog, prime example! Beloved family pet, about three years old-live with aunt and family from 10 weeks....one day, my aunts daughters (now grown up, but at the time about 16 and 14) were sitting on the sofa..'Rosie' the OES strolled in from the garden..and walked past the girls...stopped at one of them, sniffed her..and lunged for her, ending in a fairly nasty bite on the arm-this was totally unprovoked IMO.
They may be our pets, we may have domesticated dogs/cats etc for thousands of years...however, they are most definatley still animals, with animal instincts in my eyes. I would never say i trusted any pet of mine 100% regardless of how long i had, had them-i would also never say "Oh its ok, he/she doesnt bite" as IMO, you never quite know.

[Donna]

Originally Posted by Luke

Ok i will probably get shot down, but here goes-the highlighted statement, IMO, isn't totally true. All to often i have heard of the beloved family dog biting for no reason, dogs that have lived with familys from 8 weeks to umpteen years..then one day they just bite..in many cases for no apparent reason.
My aunts Old english sheepdog, prime example! Beloved family pet, about three years old-live with aunt and family from 10 weeks....one day, my aunts daughters (now grown up, but at the time about 16 and 14) were sitting on the sofa..'Rosie' the OES strolled in from the garden..and walked past the girls...stopped at one of them, sniffed her..and lunged for her, ending in a fairly nasty bite on the arm-this was totally unprovoked IMO.
They may be our pets, we may have domesticated dogs/cats etc for thousands of years...however, they are most definatley still animals, with animal instincts in my eyes. I would never say i trusted any pet of mine 100% regardless of how long i had, had them-i would also never say "Oh its ok, he/she doesnt bite" as IMO, you never quite know.

Agree completely Luke.

A dog is an animal. You cannot understand what goes through its head. What it is thinking. You cannot trust ANY animal. Even my rabbit. As lovely and cute as it is - I cannot guarantee it isnt gonna bite me

I could tell my children to stand still if a wild snarling dog is running towards them, but somehow I dont think they are gonna do that - their instinct is to get away.

[Donna]

Originally Posted by yola

I am terrified of dogs . . .always have been. I don't touch them, even small cute ones in the street for that reason. Looking back, even if my parents would have rationalised the argument for standing still, I doubt I would have done so as a child. I would have run like hell.

Having said that - on the 2 occasions I was cornered by a dog; once outside my own home by a neighbours b/w collie-type dog I ran like the wind into the house.

The second time I was on my own and crossing a park on my way home when my path was blocked by a beautiful but snarling and lip-curling lassie-dog. On that occasion I stood still, but only as I was in an open field. I must've been about 10, and I stood trembling and crying with my eyes shut for I-don't-know-how-long, until some kindly woman (not the dog's owner - who was nowhere around) came up to me and asked me if I was OK . . the dog had disappeared. Only then did I run all the way home.

Point is - a well-trained animal will NOT act in a hostile and threatening manner unless provoked. I do believe most children, even those not familiar with dogs can tell the difference between playful exuberance and hostility. I both my cases the dog was overtly threatening . . . I suspect from what Donna's written that this animal was likewise.

I still stand by the fact that licensing of dog ownership is needed together with compulsory behavioural training for owner and pet to avoid such occurances as much as possible.

As much as I can look at pictures of dogs (quite a few from CP I recall) and say aww what a cutie - I still would not put myself in a room with a large dog if I can help it!!! I did once contemplate getting a small dog, but thinking logically I decided even a small dog would be too much for me. I decided that it is not the small dog/big dog problem with me, but a DOG problem completely!!!

I can surround myself with animals - cats, bunnies, etc, but dogs are just too scary for me. I dont want to be afraid of my own pet.

[borderdawn]

Come on Em, there is no way you would tolerate that behaviour from one of your dogs is there? and if it was your child that was bitten, you WOULD want it PTS. You know as well as I do that dogs attack for no reason, and it doesnt matter what "signals" were passed on by person or child, a dog that has a tendancy to "over-react" for want of a better term, has no place in society today, given the state of dogs in general.

Its ok telling people they shouldnt have the dog PTS, if you are not in their shoes, I dont have children, have no desire to at present, but if that was one of my neices or nephews, I wouldnt of hesitated to lift my rifle (I have a new one ) at it.

Imagine what it would be like living next to a dog you know has attacked children, it must be awful.
Dawn.

[Fran]

Originally Posted by borderdawn

Come on Em, there is no way you would tolerate that behaviour from one of your dogs is there? and if it was your child that was bitten, you WOULD want it PTS. You know as well as I do that dogs attack for no reason, and it doesnt matter what "signals" were passed on by person or child, a dog that has a tendancy to "over-react" for want of a better term, has no place in society today, given the state of dogs in general.

Its ok telling people they shouldnt have the dog PTS, if you are not in their shoes, I dont have children, have no desire to at present, but if that was one of my neices or nephews, I wouldnt of hesitated to lift my rifle (I have a new one ) at it.

Imagine what it would be like living next to a dog you know has attacked children, it must be awful.
Dawn.

Must be a first Dawn! - but I totally agree with you

[Canis-Equus]

IF this dog was attacking out of fear or nastiness, yes it should be put down and it does sound like it was one of the two. Fear is usually the cause of aggression and a dog thats THAT frightened that it feels it must jump a fence to 'get rid' of whats its scared of has some serious issues that i wouldnt be happy dealing with - theres one solution for that and passing a dog like that on is dangerous - ditto 'nastiness' for whatever reason. There ARE too many dogs in the world taht are nice and kind and not nasty to be trying to rescue the ones that have serious serious issues.

IF any of my dogs did that out of nastiness, ie exact same situation i would have them put down, yes of course i would.

But if they jumped a fence to go and play and ended up beign wound up and bit a child accidentally, no i wouldnt. What i WOULD do is apologise profusely and take steps to ensure it enver happened again ie increase fence height, never allow dogs outside unaccompanied, etc.

I dont believe though that dogs bite for no reason, i never have. They HAVE a reason, it may be a good one as well, for instance a dog who bites a small child who is crawling towards its bowl. In the past that dog has been punished for growling by having its food removed. Instead of learning that humans give food back, the dog has laerned that humans ignore warnings, humans take and humans punish for the dog saying 'hey, tahts mine, put it back'.... so you have a dog who bites the small person who ISNT someone who can punish the dog, because hes not been taught that he has no need to defend his food, he's been taught never to SHOW htat need.

Thats a hugely common reason for kids being bitten and as far as im concerned, the owner there is to blame, not the dog or the child.

There are however reasons that dogs attack adn dogs bite that i think are too deep to solve. Dogs that bite and MEAN it (not like mine who would chase and nip in play), are generally very unhappy confused dogs who dont have a particularly nice life and i see no wrong in having those humanely destroyed for their own benefit and everyone elses safety.


There is a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuge amount of misunderstanding regarding dog behaviour. Unsurprising when thats from non dog owners, why would they know, but i find it SHOCKING when dog owners dont know what their dogs are saying, thinking, or feeling.

Most people assume growling and biting = aggression = vicious. And that wagging tail = friendly.
Not so. One of my dogs greets people she adores by growling VERY loudly, jumping up and nipping/mouthing hands. To someone who doesnt know her, it looks very much like i walk in my house and my dog attacks me, but its not the case, its just the way SHE expresses her pleasure - and Snoof can tell you taht with small persons, shes fantastic.

Wagging tails can mean friendly... they can also mean 'i am the boss of you, i am about to prove this by jumping on you and biting you'....

These arent extreme examples at all, many dogs play by snarling and growling and biting, the dominant 'pre fight' tail wag is very very common.

I would welcome dog licencing, im not sure about compulsory training or behaviour classes, purely because some people do it right, some people do it with soem appalling methods - id hate to be FORCED to go to a training class where the trainer forced me to use methods i believe are wrong and damaging to dogs.

Dog licencing was dropped though because it was too expensive and time consuming to carry on, and only responsibly owners bothered - the kind of owners who have well trained dogs and wouldnt allow a dog with problems the opportunity to jump a fence and attack children, so it really wouldnt solve anything anyway. Just look at Breed Specific Legislation, the APBT along with three other breeds is banned. Yet i could go and buy a whole LITTER of them right now if i wanted to, and so could most people if they asked around quietly. Even worse, litters of this banned breed are advertised in free ads papers, regardless of whether they are that breed or not (generally, they are not they are crossbreeds), the police are invariably NOT interested in looking into it - why would they be bothered about people with unlicenced dogs?

Em

[borderdawn]

Em, you are rambling!!! just pulling your leg!!

I know what you are saying, but its not fair to assume that the dog was within its rights to bite this child, dogs dont have rights, (except sofa rights ) I 100% agree that if a dog attacks, it should be PTS.

I understand about dogs biting, I have been bitten twice this year!! One was from a nasty dog, one was from a scared dog. The scared dog bit of of fear and self defence, strange place, strangers around, the nasty dog bit me because she could and she thought she should, plain and simple, no provercation, dog was fine and happy on her terms, but not to be asked to do something she didnt want to do. Surely because that dog was thinking and making a choice for itself, it shouldnt be accepted that the dog had reason for biting?
Dawn.

p.s. Me and Em go back a way, we friends really and love a good debate!!

[Donna]

Glad my thread has lead to some interesting debate!!

Just to add - this boy had his back to the dog as he was trying to get in the house and he had the bottom parts of his legs bitten - quite badly - enough for hospital and skin gluing, tetenas and bandages.

I still think should be PTS.

[DiddyDawn]

I have 2 dogs and I also have 2 kids. If any of my dogs bit anyone, I would question why they've bitten and not rush them down to the vets to be pts. One of my dogs is as soft as anything, the other I wouldn't trust 100% but this is usually with people the other side of the gate because he is protecting his property. If I invite someone in, he is fine but he will bark at them continuously until they are in the house......this could be construed as aggressive behaviour and I suppose if someone ran, he would run after them. I always warn people coming down to the house about the dogs, and it's amazing how stupid some people are, when they open the bottom gate which is there to stop the dogs getting to them

In this instance, the owners are at fault, they should have the dog safely contained, and if the fence isn't high enough, they should be made to put it right......by putting the dog to sleep, you are punishing the dog and not the owner. I admit some dogs are dangerous, but I know how one of mine would react, if someone ran from him.......he would get overly excited and would probably bite. I also think in the warm weather, most dogs are unpredictable and care should be taken around them. I have been bit numerous times whilst growing up, more by my own stupid fault than anything and not listening.........the owners should be made to take responsibility for their pets and if there's a possibility they can bite, they should make sure they have somewhere safe to secure them where they can't do any harm.