Turning 3 little devils into angels

[Elaine]

If any of the doggy people have any tips or useful info which may help, then I am all ears.
Here's the story.
I have 3 little horror dogs on the books.

Millie, the ring leader. She is dog aggressive and pulls on the lead till she chokes but doesnt stop. This little minx, on my first walk, managed to slip her collar and go running off down the road towards a guy with 2 cockers, fortunately an on coming car DID see her, wasnt going too fast and stopped so I could get hold of her.

Roxy, a lovely little dog but scared and insecure. On another walk, the postman was walking towards us, Millie and the other Yorkie began barking and snarling, as i tightened the lead on them so they couldnt attack, the jack russell bit the postman
After these two episodes, I thought it may be better to simply do some garden play time with them. The owner hadnt informed me that the dogs could also be people aggressive and had said nothing when he was told, nor did he provide me with a muzzle, so garden play it was to be.

Toto. In the garden would jump into my arms like a baby, each time he did this i simply put him back down on the floor. He would attack Roxy and steal Roxy's toys, bones etc.
So, I began to dislike these dogs alot, I know it's not their fault and how i was begining to feel towards them made me feel guilty because i actually wanted to drop them from being on my books. Had a good long chat with my sister and she offered to come with me to see them yesterday.
We decided to take them out for a walk. We waited in the house for quite a while for them to calm down b efore setting off. My sister took Roxy and Millie and took Toto. All went fairly well until we met two dogs. Millie, kicked it all off, Roxy became nervous and Toto bit Roxy.
My sister offered to come with me again today. This time we took each dog, in no particular order, other than leaving Millie till last. One at a time we took a 20 minute walk with each dog. My sister being an observer and checking me if she thought I was tensing up on aproaching a situation.
Those 3 holy terrors, didnt get walked for an hour but 20 minutes each but the walks were calmer, dogs walked to heal mostly, two of them had be checked on occasion. By the end of the walk and inside their house, my sister asked me just to stand quietly, not to look at the dogs or talk to them. And instead of them still jumping around and yapping, all three dogs, after a short time, lay down in their own little spots and relaxed. What a treat it was to leave them that way.
I love animals but i am no Ceasar Milan, so i welcome any advice from experienced doggie people and would like to say a very big thankyou to my sister for helping me and putting me into a better relationship with these dogs coz i dont want to give up on them now.

[farthing]

Hi, don't know if I'll be much help, but what are their ages and when did they join the pack. My Corrie, who is 2, is always having a go at Levi, who is 3, but Levi is a very insecure dog. The aggression isn't bad, but it is Corrie sensing that Levi is next on the stepping stone in the order of dominance, and challenging him. I'ts not bad, but flairs up around me. I would suspect you won't be able to change things too much as the owner will continue to treat the dogs in the way they are accustomed to, therefore always weakening any rules you lay. Ignoring this behaviour is best and as your sister says, looking away, etc when they are jumping around will help
Sorry, not much help and my dogs are very biosterous, they jump all over people, but never bite, accept any dog into the house and generally get on with only the odd squabble- only been to the vet once with a bite.

[Elaine]

Thanx for that Farthing but I do beleive that these little dogs will begin to behave differently around me if I can remain calm and in control when I am around them. I am not totally sure of the ages but think that Roxy is the eldest, followed by Millie and then Toto. The owner is a nervous kinda chap, so yes their behaviour wont change with him but i am, after yesterday, begining to see how they can react just by sharing a calm and authoritive energy around them. I am just hopping i can continue this on my own now as its easier when some one else is with you.
I beleive at the moment the pack leader is Millie, Toto is dominant over Roxy and attacks her because she is insecure. I also think that Roxy is going to be the biggest challenge because of her insecurity.

[Jac]

Elaine, how many times a week are you walking them? Personally I would walk each one alone. Build up a trust with them. May be take a tit bit in your pocket but knowing you, you already do that. reward good behaviour. Once you have there respect! cause it sounds pretty much like the rule there owner. Only then I would walk them as a pack. Once they see you as top dog.

Is the owner approachable? If he is why not recommend some bachs in there water for a wee bit? It may calm the dog that needs it down and ease the stressy dog. Just an idea.

[farthing]

Something also worth mentioning to the owner is a DAP diffuser, its the dog version of a feliway. They don't always work, but it certainly helped Corrie, he was constantly peeing in the house- if somebody came to the door, if somebody came into the house, if somebody raised their hand to pet him- it has all but stopped and the dogs are generally more calm with it on, I have one plugged in all the time. I also keep a feliway plugged in for the cats and don't seem to have problems with cat fights or spraying, and that's with 8 cats, although we do have 9 litter trays.

I also agree with Jac about walking them individually until they settle down, I wonder how often he takes them for a walk, sometimes this kind of behaviour can be cause by anxiety.

[Elaine]

I have alot of trouble comunicating with the owner in all honesty, he is a mumbler and i can barely understand what he says, he is also a nervous kind of character who never even bothered to contact me after Roxy bit the postman to talk about it.
I think he see's the dogs as little furry people and other than Millies dog aggression, I dont think he see's any real problems with them.
I do intend to take them out individually from now on, as i know that is the only way i can address each one individually and correct their behaviours.
Although I beleive that possitive reward is the way to go, I am not a huge fan of always giving treats as a reward. The reward they got yesterday was that they could relax more because i was being taught how to take control and they didnt have to worry as much, which helped them to enjoy the walk and relax after it. They got a small food treat before i left which was when my sister and I stood and waited for them to go lie down and listen to the big sigh that two of them gave, of a weight being lifted from them.
Now that may sound a bit airy fairy but I left that house yesterday feeling 10 feet tall and in complete control, not so much of their lives but of mine.
Does that make sense to any one?
I only see them for two hours each week but if i can walk back into that house with the same feeling i left with yesterday, those dogs may feel more secure and less likely to want to try and take charge. They will always behave the same way around the owner because they will feed off his nervous energy and indecisive mind.
Whilst i think RR and Dap defusers etc can play a part, they wont change the dogs unless he takes control. I will however mention them as they may well be more beneficial to Roxy than to the other two.
Thankyou for reminding me of these things.

[angieh]

I'm being nosey now - your sister obviously knew exactly how to handle those dogs (and you!). Does she have a background in animal behaviour, or a lot of experience with how to handle badly behaved dogs?

[Elaine]

Originally Posted by angieh

I'm being nosey now - your sister obviously knew exactly how to handle those dogs (and you!). Does she have a background in animal behaviour, or a lot of experience with how to handle badly behaved dogs?

My sister has always had dogs and trained them herself, she is a very calm person with alot of patients, for animals that is . She has also made mistakes with animals but learns from them.

[Elaine]

These three little dogs have remembered their lessons from last week Only had to check them a couple of times.
Millie, the dog aggressive yorkie, didnt even bark when we saw another dog she did pull towards it a few times and I checked her for that and kept the walk upbeat, brisk and relaxed. Roxy the Jack Russell now realises that when we are back on her street, it takes her longer to get home if she pulls . All three were settled and relaxed when i left them.
I applied the same rules to SuzyQ when i tokk her out today and she too was very good indeed and got the point that she has to walk with me and not infront very quickly.
Sad thing is, owner is now in contact with Bordeaux rescue for another I am hoping that they vet him well and decline him, for both dogs sakes.

[Kazz]

Elaine looks like good advice from your sister sometimes dogs get out of hand because they can they do need rules and firmish handling "ie told what to do" other wise they make the rules up as they go....try the walking individualy for a good while and when you think its going well do it for a bit longer dogs get into a routine then maybe get your sister to walk with you with the three of them......just to reset the dynamics as a pack...if you can control them one to one the pack should fall into place.....much easier as they will respect you.....as the boss and look to you for guidance....and if you stay calm, they will too if you eradicate their bad habits like pulling dog barking/lunging etc...then they should be happy pack....although I would stil do at least 2 walks out of the say 7 you do as indiviual walks especially as you are not with them 24/7 to reinforce what they are being taught.

Best luck not that you need it. Karen